The Byzantine Forum
Newest Members
Lucy4light, Elijah Maria, Fr. Steven ROCOR, vlodko62, CelticOrthodox
5447 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
3 registered members (Fr. Al, JLF, 1 invisible), 48 guests, and 101 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Latest Photos
Papal Audience 10 November 2017
Upgraded Russian icon corner
Russian Greek Catholic Global Congress
OL EuroEast II (2007) Group
Portable Icon Screen
Forum Statistics
Forums26
Topics34,422
Posts410,174
Members5,447
Most Online2,716
Jun 7th, 2012
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 3 of 7 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
#330229 - 08/17/09 03:54 PM Re: OCA Searching for New Bishop of New York & New Jersey [Re: Fr Serge Keleher]  
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,404
Latin Catholic Offline
Member
Latin Catholic  Offline
Member

Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,404
Norway
The recently reestablished OCA Diocese of New York & New Jersey now has its own website up and running: http://www.nynjoca.org/

Here one can also read the Final Report of the Diocesan Search Committee, Instructions Concerning the Election of the Ruling Bishop, and biographies of the three candidates for Bishop of New York & New Jersey:
These biographies are well worth reading.

#330239 - 08/17/09 10:13 PM Re: OCA Searching for New Bishop of New York & New Jersey [Re: Latin Catholic]  
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,735
Slavipodvizhnik Offline
Member
Slavipodvizhnik  Offline
Member

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,735
The Third Rome
Not a monastic amongst them. Sigh...... Putting a khlobuk on an hour and a half prior to consecration does not a monk make. And the Metropolia wonders why it is walking off a cliff...

Alexandr

#330251 - 08/18/09 12:25 AM Re: OCA Searching for New Bishop of New York & New Jersey [Re: Latin Catholic]  
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,206
likethethief Offline
Member
likethethief  Offline
Member

Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,206
SF Bay, CA USA
Originally Posted by Latin Catholic

[*]Archpriest Michael Dahulich
[*]Archpriest David Mahaffey
[*]Archpriest David Brum
These biographies are well worth reading.


Prayers for the Diocese of New York & New Jersey.

I did very much enjoy reading about Archpriest David Brum (That name has been anglicized!) He's such a classic native of California's great Central Valley. I was so touched by his many years of devoted ministry to the Catholic Church here as he struggled privately with his journey of many years toward Orthodoxy. His family's response to his reception into the Orthodox Church is a real testament to their love and their faith.

God bless each of these men for their priestly service to God's people.

#330263 - 08/18/09 06:46 AM Re: OCA Searching for New Bishop of New York & New Jersey [Re: Slavipodvizhnik]  
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 250
Secret Squirrel Offline
Byzantine Secret Service
Secret Squirrel  Offline
Byzantine Secret Service
Member

Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 250
The Oak Tree
Originally Posted by Slavipodvizhnik
Not a monastic amongst them. Sigh...... Putting a khlobuk on an hour and a half prior to consecration does not a monk make. And the Metropolia wonders why it is walking off a cliff...

Alexandr

Slim pickings indeed! This after a so-called list of 40 candidates. I can only imagine what the ones not considered were like if this is the top of the list. Let's see here, you have one (Brum) that has had his nomination and election blocked twice due to his implication in the scandals that rocked the OCA over the past few years, once for the Diocese of the South and the second for an auxiliary bishop position (notice how that was conveniently left out of his autobiography). Then you have another (Mahaffey) who could not even garner 10% of the vote from his home diocese of Western PA when they elected a bishop for that diocese earlier this year. That leaves Dahulich, which I have heard rumors is going to turn down the nomination in order to continue on in his role at St. Tikhon's.

I think it is time for a new search committee to find some viable candidates that can truly be pastors and lead.

#330266 - 08/18/09 08:13 AM Re: OCA Searching for New Bishop of New York & New Jersey [Re: Secret Squirrel]  
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 7,309
StuartK Offline
Member
StuartK  Offline
Member

Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 7,309
Falls Church, VA
So, who's the Protodeacon?

#330270 - 08/18/09 10:38 AM Re: OCA Searching for New Bishop of New York & New Jersey [Re: StuartK]  
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 6,227
theophan Offline
Moderator
theophan  Offline
Moderator
Member

Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 6,227
Hollidaysburg, PA
Chrsit is in our midst!!

I wonder why the bishop on the list withdrew his name.

BOB

#330272 - 08/18/09 10:47 AM Re: OCA Searching for New Bishop of New York & New Jersey [Re: theophan]  
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 7,309
StuartK Offline
Member
StuartK  Offline
Member

Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 7,309
Falls Church, VA
New wine in old wineskins? The Nicene prohibition on see-hopping? SSDD?

#330289 - 08/18/09 02:58 PM Re: OCA Searching for New Bishop of New York & New Jersey [Re: StuartK]  
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 672
70x7 Offline
Member
70x7  Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 672
Lansford, PA
Stuart,
The Nicene prohibition on see-hopping? SSDD?
What is SSDD??? I heard of WWJD, but never that one. Enlighten me please. :-)

Ray

#330291 - 08/18/09 03:07 PM Re: OCA Searching for New Bishop of New York & New Jersey [Re: 70x7]  
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 7,309
StuartK Offline
Member
StuartK  Offline
Member

Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 7,309
Falls Church, VA
Council of Nicaea said bishops should not move from see to see, but should stay where they were ordained bishop. SSDD = Same stuff, different day.

#330292 - 08/18/09 03:14 PM Re: OCA Searching for New Bishop of New York & New Jersey [Re: StuartK]  
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 672
70x7 Offline
Member
70x7  Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 672
Lansford, PA
OK...now that I understand the acronym...to whom are you referring though? There isn't anybody on that list who is a bishop. I would like to understand.

Thanks!

Ray

#330293 - 08/18/09 03:14 PM Re: OCA Searching for New Bishop of New York & New Jersey [Re: StuartK]  
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 3,437
Father Anthony Offline
Administrator
Father Anthony  Offline

Administrator
Member

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 3,437
New York
Snarky and rude assumptions aside, maybe if Stuart read the report, especially the part concerning His Grace, Bishop Seraphim (Sigrist), retired Bishop of Sendai (recently received into the OCA from the autonomous Orthodox Church of Japan), maybe then an informed and accurate reply could have been given instead.

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+
Administrator


Everyone baptized into Christ should pass progressively through all the stages of Christ's own life, for in baptism he receives the power so to progress, and through the commandments he can discover and learn how to accomplish such progression. - Saint Gregory of Sinai
#330331 - 08/19/09 06:19 AM Re: OCA Searching for New Bishop of New York & New Jersey [Re: Father Anthony]  
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 7,309
StuartK Offline
Member
StuartK  Offline
Member

Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 7,309
Falls Church, VA
Well, Father, one might be excused for being snarky, rude and cynical when reviewing a process that takes the simple and makes it extremely complex, to say nothing of opaque in its operation.

In the OCA, we are not dealing with a large organization. There are how many priests in the Diocese of New York? There are eleven parishes and missions (including those in the new Diocese of Washington), so we are talking about perhaps twenty to thirty priests. These men all know each other, their characters and capabilities. How hard would it be to ask them who they would like to be their next bishop, and submit a list of two or three names to the Synod, which then could choose?

Instead, we have some sort of talent search by a committee whose membership and practices have been called into question. It's a sign of how much trust the hierarchy of the OCA has lost that something as simple as the selection of a new bishop becomes a contentious issue.

I also really do not believe that bishop should be moved from one see to another. It's a pernicious practices that rewards ambition and politicking. If a see becomes vacant, then the next bishop should be chosen from among the clergy of the diocese with the active participation of the clergy and people of the diocese itself.

#330332 - 08/19/09 06:31 AM Re: OCA Searching for New Bishop of New York & New Jersey [Re: StuartK]  
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 3,437
Father Anthony Offline
Administrator
Father Anthony  Offline

Administrator
Member

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 3,437
New York
Stuart,

Much better, but now I have to pose a question to you from your post. The Diocese of New York and New Jersey has roughly 60+ parishes and roughly the same amount if not greater of clergy. In reviewing the website for that diocese earlier this week, they have only roughly 4-5 clergy that are celibate or widowed to begin the process of selection from within the diocese. If none of these contenders are eligible by either qualification (by OCA statute), screening or choice, where do they start looking for candidates for consideration?

Mind you, I have no sympathies for the selection committee and the way that the screening process was approached, and I am sure that it is going to have some sort of backlash from the clergy and laity at the special diocesan convention. For the record, Bishop Seraphim did remove his name from consideration immediately when approached, since he had no desire in assuming the administrative responsibilities of leading a diocese again.

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+


Everyone baptized into Christ should pass progressively through all the stages of Christ's own life, for in baptism he receives the power so to progress, and through the commandments he can discover and learn how to accomplish such progression. - Saint Gregory of Sinai
#330337 - 08/19/09 09:26 AM Re: OCA Searching for New Bishop of New York & New Jersey [Re: Father Anthony]  
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 7,309
StuartK Offline
Member
StuartK  Offline
Member

Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 7,309
Falls Church, VA
Dear Father,

A review of the OCA Parish/Clergy directory at their web site indicates there are just eleven parishes and missions in the combined Diocese of New York and Washington, with a total of 23 priests, including Metropolitan Jonah. By contrast, the OCA Diocese of Alaska has 49 priests, Eastern Pennsylvania has 40 priests, the Midwest has 89, the South has 97, New England has 31, the West has 67 and Western Pennsylvania has 35 (all these taken from the OCA online clergy directory, and excluding the ethnic and offshore dioceses).

So, the first question is you got the number 60+ for the clergy of the Diocese of New York and Washington. That notwithstanding, if my numbers are correct, the problem is far worse than you stated, since there seem to be only three unmarried priests and one unmarried deacon in the whole diocese.

I suppose that it would be possible to expand the search to include the Dioceses of New England and Eastern Pennsylvania, since all of these are geographically contiguous to the Diocese of New York and Washington (the Diocese of the South is geographically huge and includes most of what we would call the Southwest), but the situation would not be much better than you indicated.

Those two dioceses have seventy one priests and about thirty-five deacons, which is a total of one hundred major clergy. If the proportion for New York and Washington (4 out of 23), and just 17% of the clergy in those diocese are unmarried, then we might expect a total of 17-18 unmarried priests and deacons. If we exclude the deacons, then we would get only 12 potential candidates. If half of those candidates are excluded on the basis of age, willingness or other impediments, then you are stuck with just six likely candidates.

Still, given the limited scope of the search, if they had polled the clergy of the Diocese of New York, they could have come up with a list on their own. I am not familiar with the statutory requirements for being a bishop in the OCA, but the only canonical requirement is the bishop must have taken monastic orders before his ordination to the episcopate. It would seem reasonable that any other qualifications could be waived by the synod with the concurrence of the clergy of the diocese.

A more disturbing and long-term problem, however, is the lack of a strong monastic foundation to the OCA. If the faithful of the OCA are not happy with their limited choices for the episcopate, they need to have a much deeper pool of monastic clergy from which to choose. This in turn requires more monasteries, more monastic vocations, and more monks.

Last edited by StuartK; 08/19/09 09:27 AM.
#330339 - 08/19/09 09:33 AM Re: OCA Searching for New Bishop of New York & New Jersey [Re: StuartK]  
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 3,437
Father Anthony Offline
Administrator
Father Anthony  Offline

Administrator
Member

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 3,437
New York
Stuart,

I do not know what site you have reviewed, but this is the link to the OCA website listing exactly 57 parishes and missions for the Diocese of New York and New Jersey. If we are to discuss this topic, it might help from a position of accuracy. As to the issues of monasticism in the OCA and the issues from the lack of viability regarding it, that in itself is a topic that deserves a thread all to itself in the appropriate forum section, which in my opinion I happen to agree with your assessment.

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+


Everyone baptized into Christ should pass progressively through all the stages of Christ's own life, for in baptism he receives the power so to progress, and through the commandments he can discover and learn how to accomplish such progression. - Saint Gregory of Sinai
Page 3 of 7 1 2 3 4 5 6 7

Moderated by  Father Anthony 

The Byzantine Forum provides message boards for discussions focusing on Eastern Christianity (though discussions of other topics are welcome). The views expressed herein are those of the participants and may or may not reflect the teachings of the Byzantine Catholic or any other Church. The Byzantine Forum and the www.byzcath.org site exist to help build up the Church but are unofficial, have no connection with any Church entity, and should not be looked to as a source for official information for any Church. All posts become property of byzcath.org. Contents copyright - 1996-2017. All rights reserved.
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0
Page Time: 0.018s Queries: 15 (0.005s) Memory: 1.8009 MB (Peak: 2.0374 MB) Zlib enabled. Server Time: 2017-11-18 13:56:40 UTC