The Byzantine Forum
Newest Members
Seavila777, MZbor, Lisa Korovainytsia, Elizanna, slovakbaba227
5561 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
1 registered members (ast82401), 70 guests, and 356 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Latest Photos
Papal Audience 10 November 2017
Upgraded Russian icon corner
Russian Greek Catholic Global Congress
OL EuroEast II (2007) Group
Portable Icon Screen
Forum Statistics
Forums26
Topics34,598
Posts411,028
Members5,561
Most Online2,716
Jun 7th, 2012
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
How Common Is This Practice ? #335169
10/16/09 02:17 PM
10/16/09 02:17 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,217
Illinois
L
Lawrence Offline OP
Member
Lawrence  Offline OP
Member
L

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,217
Illinois

At one small Ukrainian Catholic parish I visit, near the beginning of the liturgy, everyone comes forward to kiss the Evangelium. I've been to several Eastern Catholic churches over the years, as well as a few Orthodox ones, and I've only seen this done at one church. Does anyone know how widespread this custom is ?

Re: How Common Is This Practice ? [Re: Lawrence] #335178
10/16/09 03:38 PM
10/16/09 03:38 PM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 7,309
Falls Church, VA
S
StuartK Offline
Member
StuartK  Offline
Member
S

Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 7,309
Falls Church, VA
I have never seen this during the Divine Liturgy, however, it does occur after the Gospel readings in Orthros.

Re: How Common Is This Practice ? [Re: StuartK] #335181
10/16/09 04:24 PM
10/16/09 04:24 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 528
PA
Byzantine TX Offline
Member
Byzantine TX  Offline
Member

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 528
PA
At my last parish all the children came up to hear the Gospel reading and then kissed the Gospel after the reading.

Re: How Common Is This Practice ? [Re: StuartK] #335182
10/16/09 04:30 PM
10/16/09 04:30 PM
Joined: Aug 1998
Posts: 4,149
Washington, PA
Fr. Deacon Lance Offline
Moderator
Fr. Deacon Lance  Offline
Moderator
Member

Joined: Aug 1998
Posts: 4,149
Washington, PA
I think it is more common among the Melkites who will sometimes have the children stand upfront around the priest for the Gospel reading and some Ukrainians and Rusyns copied it. I take it this is borrowed from the custom of venerating the Gospel at Orthros but since very few parishes have Orthros they do it at Liturgy.


My cromulent posts embiggen this forum.
Re: How Common Is This Practice ? [Re: Fr. Deacon Lance] #335183
10/16/09 04:54 PM
10/16/09 04:54 PM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 7,309
Falls Church, VA
S
StuartK Offline
Member
StuartK  Offline
Member
S

Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 7,309
Falls Church, VA
Well, at Holy Transfiguration, everybody clusters around the Solea for the Gospel, but there is no kissing of the Book at that time. We do venerate the Gospel at Orthros.

Re: How Common Is This Practice ? [Re: StuartK] #335193
10/16/09 07:01 PM
10/16/09 07:01 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 481
Farmington Hills,MI
F
Fr. Al Online content
Member
Fr. Al  Online Content
Member
F

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 481
Farmington Hills,MI
Dear Lawrence,Once in Canada,in a Ukrainian Orthodox Church,I observed the priest bringing the Gospel up the aisle during the Little Entrance.The faithful on either side kissed the Gospel.I later asked a Ukrainian priest from the Poltava if he had ever seen or heard of this custom;he said he hadn't,neither in Ukraine nor in the US.Since this church was in Windsor,Ontario,I suspect this may be a Bukovinian practice.Sadly,the Liturgy was preceeded neither by Orthros nor the Hours.I DIDN'T see this practice in the Romanian Church here in the Detroit area.

Re: How Common Is This Practice ? [Re: Fr. Al] #335206
10/17/09 05:02 AM
10/17/09 05:02 AM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 6,563
Glasgow, Scotland
O
Our Lady's slave Offline
Member
Our Lady's slave  Offline
Member
O

Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 6,563
Glasgow, Scotland
I'm UGCC and normally Read the Epistle and Gospel every week in English after they are chanted in Ukrainian .

I normally venerate the Gospel after the two candle bearers [ I read from the front of the Church and the left hand side ]

Last year while Father was on Holiday in Ukraine we had a Priest from Ivano Frankivsk serving us and once he had realised that I was reading , he came down the side Aisle at the Little Entrance and indicated that I should Venerate the Gospel then . I'd never seen this before either but my SF assures me that it does happen in some areas of Ukaraine

Re: How Common Is This Practice ? [Re: Our Lady's slave] #335208
10/17/09 05:32 AM
10/17/09 05:32 AM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 848
Australia
Otsheylnik Offline
Member
Otsheylnik  Offline
Member

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 848
Australia
I have a Ukrainian prayer book for children that specifically says that this is normal practice. It is NEVER done among Orthodox. This is mostly because, at least among the Russians, the Gospel is properly venerated at matins during all night vigil the preceding saturday evening. if you want to do it, that is place to turn up.

Last edited by Otsheylnik; 10/17/09 05:35 AM.
Re: How Common Is This Practice ? [Re: Otsheylnik] #335231
10/17/09 08:20 PM
10/17/09 08:20 PM
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 700
Eagle River, AK, US
A
aramis Offline
Member
aramis  Offline
Member
A

Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 700
Eagle River, AK, US
Our (Ruthenian Catholic) parish's children come forward and stand close to the Priest during the Gospel, then venerate the Evangelion following the Gospel, as do the servers.

Parents accompanying their children to the front also venerate the Evangelion at the same time.

Re: How Common Is This Practice ? [Re: aramis] #335254
10/18/09 05:40 AM
10/18/09 05:40 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 98
Pennsylvania
R
rwprof Offline
Member
rwprof  Offline
Member
R

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 98
Pennsylvania
Yes, we do this at Matins, but not Liturgy.

One thing the OCA does, however, that I really like is that during the Litany for the Catechumens, the catechumens come to the front and stand in front of the ambo, and at the Prayer over the Catechumens, the priest prays for each one and placed his hand on the head of each, naming him (or her) by name. I have never seen this done in any other jurisdiction, including the ROCOR.




Re: How Common Is This Practice ? [Re: rwprof] #335255
10/18/09 05:47 AM
10/18/09 05:47 AM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 7,309
Falls Church, VA
S
StuartK Offline
Member
StuartK  Offline
Member
S

Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 7,309
Falls Church, VA
Quote
I have never seen this done in any other jurisdiction, including the ROCOR.


This is done by at least some Melkite parishes. Holy Transfiguration in McLean, VA, has a pretty constant flow of adult catechumens, and Father Joseph prays over each one as described. Catechumens are also dismissed before the Creed.

Re: How Common Is This Practice ? [Re: StuartK] #335400
10/20/09 08:21 AM
10/20/09 08:21 AM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,461
Kansas/UGCC
Diak Offline
Member
Diak  Offline
Member

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,461
Kansas/UGCC
Quote
At one small Ukrainian Catholic parish I visit, near the beginning of the liturgy, everyone comes forward to kiss the Evangelium. I've been to several Eastern Catholic churches over the years, as well as a few Orthodox ones, and I've only seen this done at one church. Does anyone know how widespread this custom is ?


This practice at the Little Entrance is not uncommon in Ukrainian Catholic parishes, especially those that are smaller in physical size. I've generally always followed this practice as a deacon. In Ukraine one can find this practice in quite a number of village churches, and I do not think it is a simple copying of the Melkite practice but rather a very old Constantinopolitan practice (as I recall Mohyla mentions this as well). Veneration of the Logos at this time of the Liturgy is very appropriate and an ancient practice.

As either the Third Antiphon or Beatitudes are taken in their entirety in Ukrainian Catholic parishes, I have even been able to do this even in some larger churches without a great deal of rushing, especially if the faithful come forward rather than the deacon walking throughout the entire church. I've seen this done in a couple of Ukrainian Orthodox parishes as well. It is a common enough custom for our Eparchial Bishop to mention in a recent letter about H1N1 that the faithful could simply cross themselves and bow rather than kiss the Evanhelia if they prefer.

Re: How Common Is This Practice ? [Re: Diak] #335402
10/20/09 08:33 AM
10/20/09 08:33 AM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 787
New Jersey
F
Fr David Straut Offline
Member
Fr David Straut  Offline
Member
F

Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 787
New Jersey
Originally Posted by Diak
It is a common enough custom for our Eparchial Bishop to mention in a recent letter about H1N1 that the faithful could simply cross themselves and bow rather than kiss the Evanhelia if they prefer.

Oh my. It's gotten to that point, has it? I wonder why a bishop would feel it necessary to endorse faithless behaviour and sew the seeds of doubt in the minds of his flock?

The day that my bishop saw fit to issue a letter like that would be the day I would seriously consider priestly retirement.

Fr David Straut

Re: How Common Is This Practice ? [Re: Fr David Straut] #335403
10/20/09 08:47 AM
10/20/09 08:47 AM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,461
Kansas/UGCC
Diak Offline
Member
Diak  Offline
Member

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,461
Kansas/UGCC
It was not mandated but only suggested ("if they prefer"). The reverence for the Logos is still made. It would be unfortunate for a priest to retire over minutia.

Re: How Common Is This Practice ? [Re: Diak] #335404
10/20/09 09:05 AM
10/20/09 09:05 AM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 7,309
Falls Church, VA
S
StuartK Offline
Member
StuartK  Offline
Member
S

Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 7,309
Falls Church, VA
In any case, the very act of going to Liturgy, standing in a crowded church in close proximity to people from all over the place, breathing all over each other, shaking hands, kissing each other, stifling an occasional cough or sneeze, is a much surer way of passing along the influenza virus than kissing a silver- or gold-plated Gospel. This kind of germ phobia always struck me as silly.

Page 1 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  Alice, Father Deacon Ed, theophan 

The Byzantine Forum provides message boards for discussions focusing on Eastern Christianity (though discussions of other topics are welcome). The views expressed herein are those of the participants and may or may not reflect the teachings of the Byzantine Catholic or any other Church. The Byzantine Forum and the www.byzcath.org site exist to help build up the Church but are unofficial, have no connection with any Church entity, and should not be looked to as a source for official information for any Church. All posts become property of byzcath.org. Contents copyright - 1996-2018. All rights reserved.
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.2
(Release build 20180918)
Page Time: 0.040s Queries: 15 (0.018s) Memory: 2.0613 MB (Peak: 2.2958 MB) Zlib enabled. Server Time: 2018-11-20 13:12:51 UTC