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Re: Manhattan Declaration [Re: Paul B] #338216 11/25/09 05:33 PM
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Systratiotes Offline
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Originally Posted by Paul B
Whoever is not against us is for us.(Mar 9:40)

Thank you Fr Deacon Paul.

That verse also occured to me but as an evangelical, I felt out of place to quote it here. I try to refrain myself from judging other Chistians merely on the basis of ecclesiastical association. I am often judged by my evangelical brethren because I prefer the LXX and Byzantine GNT to the translations they endorse and also enjoy Othordox monastic chants and the iconography of the Byzantine tradition. While there is much I may not understand about some ecclesiastical traditions, I am quite secure in the systematic doctrine I hold. Nevertheless, I would choose to focus on the many things Christians have in common, and not allow the few things which might divide us from ruining the earthly testimony of our Glorious Resurrected Lord and Savior.

Quote
Render unto Caesar, but rebuke Caesar when he tries to make himself a god, for we worship only the One True God.

Amen!

μιχαηλ τω συστρατιωτης

Re: Manhattan Declaration [Re: Systratiotes] #338219 11/25/09 06:42 PM
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Alice Offline
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I just signed it.

Alice

Re: Manhattan Declaration [Re: Alice] #338228 11/25/09 09:06 PM
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I signed and forwarded this to everyone I know.

Re: The "Manhattan Declaration": The Manifesto That's Shaking America [Re: Hieromonk Ambrose] #338234 11/25/09 10:36 PM
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My Latin bishop is one of the signators. I hadn't yet heard of the Declaration when I was visiting an Orthodox parish on Saturday morning and one of the parishioners kept bringing it up. I think she may have been the only person there who'd heard of it at that point.

Bishop Tobin's response to Congressman Kennedy was just a week earlier, also very clear message about choices of the faithful, and the consequences.

Re: Manhattan Declaration [Re: Kathleen Elsie] #338235 11/25/09 10:47 PM
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I would love to sign this, but happily the site bandwidth has been exceeded, so I'll have to wait.

Elizabeth

Re: The "Manhattan Declaration": The Manifesto That's Shaking America [Re: likethethief] #338240 11/26/09 12:59 AM
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I signed it too- Columba

Re: The "Manhattan Declaration": The Manifesto That's Shaking America [Re: likethethief] #338242 11/26/09 01:39 AM
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Its about time that the kennedy's were challenged.
maybe now they will get off the fence,
Are they with Christ or against him? That is what they will have to answer.
Stephanos I

Re: The "Manhattan Declaration": The Manifesto That's Shaking America [Re: Stephanos I] #338246 11/26/09 02:36 AM
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Fr. Emmanuel Charles McCarthy, a Melkite priest has this to say:-

The Manhattan Declaration is a PR trick. It is condemning in a public forum what Jesus certainly would have rejected while approving—via public and private silence and active support in daily operation for decades—what Jesus equally and unequivocally rejects. All the signatories, I know, are old hands at doing this nationally and locally: taking the moral high ground on denouncing what is inconsistent with the Way of Jesus on some issues, while saying nothing on or overtly endorsing other matters that are equally contrary to the Will and Way of God as revealed by Jesus. Natural human reason is their universal loophole to justify overriding the self-evident teachings of Jesus on Nonviolent Love of friends and enemies and thereby follow Him by killing and maiming millions in war. But, remember, Jesus is the Logos (Word) of God, the Source and ultimate norm of what they call natural human reason (which is itself, in our view, the gift of a beneficent God), and in the very nature of the human person. A Jesus, that is Logos, de-nuded understanding of natural human reason [See my "Christian Just War Theory: Spiritual Quicksand" essay in my book Christian Natural Law Just War Theory:The Logic of Deceit ] is how they all attempt to by-pass those logical network of implications and applications of the teaching of Jesus that they find inconsistent with their interests to be faithful and obedient to. God is not illogical, says Pope Benedict XVI in his Regensburg University address. His exact words are Not to act reasonably (with logos) is contrary to the nature of God...(T)he truly divine God is the God who has revealed himself as logos and, as logos, has acted and continues to act lovingly on our behalf...Consequently, Christian worship is "logic latreía" -- worship in harmony with the eternal Word and with our reason...Not to act "with logos" is contrary to God's nature.
However, Jesus is the Logos, who is the incarnation of God, God, and who is the source and creator of natural law and therefore cannot communicate one truth as God's Will and Way in the Sermon on the Mount and the Sermon on Golgotha and the logical opposite of that truth as also truth via natural law, i.e, via the proper use of natural human reason in the very nature of the human person—that the Logos created. Natural human reason itself logically tells us with transparent clarity that if a use of Logos-given and Logos-imbued natural human reason arrives at a moral conclusion logically contrary to what the Logos incarnate, Jesus, taught, when He dwelt among us, a manlike us in all things but sin, then it is self-evident we have to be employing our Logos-given and Logos-imbued understanding of the Logos-created natural law incorrectly.

The Manhattan Declaration is but latest strategy in the ancient game of moral charades which Constantinian Christians and Churches—that have bonded with the economic and political powers of one of the kingdoms of this world—have played for 1700 years. The Manhattan Declaration is an arch-misrepresentation of what Jesus taught and meant by "Follow me." It intentionally mis-directs people away from other equally serious and grave logical applications of the teachings of Jesus on the sanctity of life and the Will and Way of God, e.g. war. Therefore, it is an exercise in deceit—and hence a contemporary instrument and blatant example of intentional half-truth-false-witness.

Re: The "Manhattan Declaration": The Manifesto That's Shaking America [Re: Collin Nunis] #338247 11/26/09 03:23 AM
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Some people cannot resist making perfect the enemy of the good.

Re: The "Manhattan Declaration": The Manifesto That's Shaking America [Re: StuartK] #338248 11/26/09 03:49 AM
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I take it that Priest Emmanuel is not a Joshephite?

Alexandr

Re: The "Manhattan Declaration": The Manifesto That's Shaking America [Re: Slavipodvizhnik] #338252 11/26/09 04:24 AM
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With all due respect to Fr. Emmanuel Charles McCarthy, I believe him to be incorrect. I've read a decent amount on the "Manhattan Declaration", and on how it came to be. It is sincere and honest, and good (even if imperfect as is everything done by man).

His ideas on the Just War Theory are not in line with the classical Catholic Just War Theory, but are more pacifistic than anything else.

Re: Manhattan Declaration [Re: babochka] #338256 11/26/09 04:55 AM
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Same here!

Re: The "Manhattan Declaration": The Manifesto That's Shaking America [Re: Administrator] #338350 11/27/09 04:20 PM
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I signed it.

Re: The "Manhattan Declaration": The Manifesto That's Shaking America [Re: Dr. Eric] #338374 11/27/09 08:22 PM
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Kathleen Elsie Offline
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I also signed it.

Re: The "Manhattan Declaration": The Manifesto That's Shaking America [Re: Kathleen Elsie] #338375 11/27/09 08:28 PM
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With all due respect to Fr. Emmanuel Charles McCarthy, a Melkite priest has this to say:-

"The Manhattan Declaration is a PR trick."

Does the word 'militant inertia' mean anything?


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