www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Orthodox antimension on Ebay

I don't know about the Orthodox Churches, but the Catholic Church, I believe, has forbidden the sale of holy relics (not that it doesn't go on all the time). Since antimensia contain relics, I wonder how the Orthodox feel about them being sold on eBay?

On the other hand, since it is a liturgical piece whose craftsmanship is, I suppose, not normally separated from the relic itself, I guess they can't just be given away, since someone put labor into making it, and he probably has to receive some sort of compensation in order to continue sewing the antimension.

Hmm...interesting!

Alexis

It's now 7 p.m. EST and the high bid is $150.00. I'd bid but I stopped my PayPal account over problems with them and my credit card. There seems to be some aggressive bidding on it.

BOB

It says it was issued to the Kellion of Saints Boris and Gleb in the year 2000 by an Archbishop John (Ioannis) of New York. Since this is all written in Greek I guess it is a Greek bishop?

Does this help to identify its origin? Catholic, Orthodox or vagante?

I know the seller, he is orthodox.

That is good because he will understand the holiness of antimensia and that they do not belong to the priests but they remain the property of the bishops who issue them. Perhaps you could ask him to consider returning the antimension.

It seems likely that this antimension was issued by
Archbishop John (LoBue) of New York of the Milan Synod.

http://www.milansynodusa.org/

Here is his e-mail
abpjohn @ holynameabbey.org

Alexis,

To answer your question, both the EO and EC deplore the selling of antimensia. As Father Ambrose has indicated, they are deemed to be the property of the bishop who issued them. Except in extraordinary circumstances, the Divine Liturgy should not be served without an antimension in place and it should be that provided to the temple or presbyter by the hierarch of the jurisdiction. In effect, it is the warrant by which a church or priest is granted authorization for the service of the Divine Liturgy.

Many years,

Neil

In Athens, there are several shops which sell unconsecrated antimensia. It is then up to the purchaser of such a blank to petition his bishop to consecrate the antimension, which involves inserting a small parcel of authenticated relics, and signing the consecrated antimension.

Forgive me, but I am not inclined to take a "consecration" from somebody of the "Synod of Milan" seriously.

Fr. Serge

It seems the Synod of Milan is not viewed unfavourably by some in Orthodoxy. Last year two of its hieromonks were received into the Russian Orthodox Church as priests and without ordination.

It would seem to be a grey area where instead of saying "extra ecclesiam nulla sacramenta" the Orthodox will murmer "fortassse, fortasse" and apply a large measure of economy.

Whatever happened to this antimension? Did the seller pull it or did someone buy it?

There is perhaps a bit of an interesting end to this story.

After the discussion here (and while the auction was still ongoing), I wrote a note to the seller, asking whether the antimens still contained its relics and, if so, the names of the saints whose relics were therein. There was no response.

By the end of that day, however, the auction was listed as “ended,” with a notation that the antimens had been sold to the highest bidder. (The buyer’s identity was not given.) Interestingly, the auction apparently ended two or three days earlier than originally scheduled.

Why the auction was terminated early is uncertain. However, eBay does have a policy of forbidding the sale of any human body parts, even small relics.

You wrote "However, eBay does have a policy of forbidding the sale of any human body parts, even small relics".
There are frequently first class relics on Ebay. Example: http://cgi.ebay.com/RARE-RELIC-RELI...tZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item1c0e86d015
Unfortunately the sale of Sacred Relics (body part fragements) does not seem to bother anyone at Ebay.

Perhaps there was an option to buy it at a fixed price and someone took the seller up on it.

BOB

Archbishop John (LoBue) of the Milan Synod in New York who consecrated this antimension contacted the seller who is a Roman Catholic priest and the latter kindly agreed to return it to Archbishop John. The relic in the antimension is that of Saint Laurence.

Thank God for that. I just don't understand what people would want to do with an antimension in the first place and still don't understand the mindset of people who think they need to sell sacred objects used in liturgical worship.

BOB