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#340763 - 01/06/10 08:38 PM no respect from Latin Rite Catholics  
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Mateusz Offline
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No disrespect to all of the knowledgable Latin-Rite Catholics, but often I get the feeling that most think Eastern Rite Catholcism is something from outter space or something. It is kind of discouraging. I know the Pope backs us and theres much of officialy Church documents and literature that shows how ancient and authentic the various eastern rites are, but sometimes I often see attidude from the Latins that we are not real Catholics. Anyone else get that feeling?

#340766 - 01/06/10 10:37 PM Re: no respect from Latin Rite Catholics [Re: Mateusz]  
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sielos ilgesys Offline
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This used to happen more in the past and is not as prevelant today, at least not in North Texas. Most Latins I meet are rather surprised at our existence and actually show interest in learning more about us. Some of them will come to Divine Liturgy and like it; and continue attending, even if it just be occasionally. Several of our parishioners have canonically transferred from the Latin Church to the Byzantine Ruthenian Church.

#340768 - 01/06/10 11:00 PM Re: no respect from Latin Rite Catholics [Re: sielos ilgesys]  
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Lawrence Offline
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Plenty of Latin Rite Catholics think some of there own traditions are from Outer Space. For instance, next time you run into a Roman Catholic ask them what they did for Epiphany.

#340781 - 01/07/10 02:24 AM Re: no respect from Latin Rite Catholics [Re: Lawrence]  
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likethethief Offline
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Originally Posted by Lawrence

Plenty of Latin Rite Catholics think some of there own traditions are from Outer Space. For instance, next time you run into a Roman Catholic ask them what they did for Epiphany.


Truer words were never spoken, tho I'm not sure the word "traditions" is the right word for much of it.


#340787 - 01/07/10 05:11 AM Re: no respect from Latin Rite Catholics [Re: Mateusz]  
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Irish Melkite Offline
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Originally Posted by Mateusz
No disrespect to all of the knowledgable Latin-Rite Catholics, but often I get the feeling that most think Eastern Rite Catholcism is something from outter space or something. It is kind of discouraging. I know the Pope backs us and theres much of officialy Church documents and literature that shows how ancient and authentic the various eastern rites are, but sometimes I often see attidude from the Latins that we are not real Catholics. Anyone else get that feeling?


I presume from this that Mateusz has had some recent particularly unpleasant experience with some of our Latin brethren and it is all too true that there are still many among them who are either outright ignorant of Eastern Christianity, have no interest in it, or consider all Eastern Christians to be a religious curiousity or an anachronism.

However, lest this thread devolve into a Latin-bashing fest, consider that ...

we are blessed to have among us here a number of Latin Catholics and several members of other Christian Churches who are knowledgeable of the East, respect it, and support us both intellectually and spiritually ...

in our real-life communities, there are many such - not the least of whom were those Latin clergy who gave unstintingly of themselves for decades to serve our parishes and peoples, as best they could, when we had not enough priests of our own ...

too, there were those Latin hierarchs whose support for our peoples and parishes and attendance to their needs were the antithesis of the treatment our spiritual forebearers received from such as Archbishops John Ireland and Patrick Ryan.

For all of these we must be grateful and honor their efforts by refusing to become footnotes in the history of Christianity.

Our mission then - both Eastern and Oriental - both Catholic and Orthodox, besides evangelizing the unchurched and welcoming those who have found new life and flourished in the liturgical praxis and spirituality of the East, must be to make Eastern Christianity better known and understood.

With all due respect to the frustration that Mateusz feels and which we have all experienced at times, we cannot allow ourselves to become mired in self-pity or retreat into a ghetto environment, circling our wagons. Doing so will serve no end other than to give proof to those who see us irrelevant to modern Christian life.

Many years,

Neil


"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."
#340796 - 01/07/10 08:41 AM Re: no respect from Latin Rite Catholics [Re: Irish Melkite]  
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Very well stated, Neil. Thank you on Christmas day, Old Style. Christ is born!

#340798 - 01/07/10 09:36 AM Re: no respect from Latin Rite Catholics [Re: likethethief]  
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theophan Offline
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Quote
Plenty of Latin Rite Catholics think some of there own traditions are from Outer Space.


Christ is Born!! Glorify Him!!

And the best part is that they just keep coming!! crazy crazy

We have been offered "do it yourself" home blessing "kits" for Epiphany for the past eight years in my parish. Comes with a little holy water bottle, a prayer text, a piece of chalk to mark the door posts--everything you need.

I shudder to think of the next step--a "do it yourself" home Eucharist "kit" for those Sundays when the weather is bad or one just "doesn't feel like" attending.

Sometimes I think I'm living in the Twilight Zone.

Mateusz, no, you're not from outer space. For many of us, you're our touchstone with reality, me included.

BOB

Last edited by theophan; 01/07/10 09:37 AM.
#340806 - 01/07/10 11:16 AM Re: no respect from Latin Rite Catholics [Re: theophan]  
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Traditions?? As a Latin Catholic I often wonder what is considered a tradition to a Latin Catholic? Recently in the church I attend the priest attempted to use incense during mass and got so much grief from the congregation(Im allergic, it makes me cough, etc etc) that he has limited it to one only one specific weekend mass. Or I wonder if it is in my tradition to have Go Tell It On The Mountain as a hymn used during mass??

#340811 - 01/07/10 11:39 AM Re: no respect from Latin Rite Catholics [Re: theophan]  
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In Perth, the Latins are slowly getting to know who we are as the Melkite Catholics here in Perth (myself and Deacon Pierre) are the gracious hosts the Catholic Malaysian community of Western Australia. I have a foot in both bodies, the Catholic Malaysian community being predominantly Latin. However, as they've learnt more about us, they've accepted us and hopefully, one of our next regular Masses as a community will be celebrated in the Melkite Rite.

On another note, as the Latin cathedral was opened last month, our Melkite eparch was featured in the Archdiocesan paper 3 times. All my friends were asking as to who that bishop was with that "funky crown", to which I proudly mustered who that man was. At all the gradual opening events, my deacon and I (unofficially) represented the Melkite Church. Everyone crowded my deacon and asked why the only clergy representative of the Eastern Catholic Churches did not vest and serve at the altar. Latin priests, deacons, and Latin laity alike. For them, they are excited about this.

As we go along, I am formally inviting the seminarians of St. Charles in Guildford to join us for Sunday Liturgy one day. I've spoken to some seminarians and some of them have expressed interest in the Eastern Rite. Pray that we will have more Eastern priests here in Perth.

It is certainly good news but I understand that there is a large segment of them who do not know who we are. Don't worry, we will get our day soon. God promises us this. Amen.

#340815 - 01/07/10 01:12 PM Re: no respect from Latin Rite Catholics [Re: Collin Nunis]  
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Stephanos I Offline
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Maybe we should incorporate sections of our catechism books in the Latin Church to begin to make future generations aware of the rich heritage and traditions of the East!
Now get busy and work on the Bishops and the publishing house.
Stephanos I

#340817 - 01/07/10 01:15 PM Re: no respect from Latin Rite Catholics [Re: Collin Nunis]  
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As a former Roman, I can attest that ignorance of the Christian East, is still very widespread.

However, through more exposure of the Eastern Churches, through print media, internet and just plain local visibility, I think perceptions are slowly starting to change.

I think that one of the primary reasons why the East has been so misunderstood by the West, rests with the Roman Catholic ecclesiological self-ascription, of the "one true church."

For the majority of Roman believers, I would imagine, that this understanding translates into...the ROMAN Catholic Church is the one true church.

So, it is not surprising that when one who has only known that particular ecclesial tradition encounters something else, calling itself Catholic, confusion may initially ensue.

Not helping the issue, is the fact that there are thousands of other churches, which either call themselves Catholic (or legitimately are), and are not in Communion with Rome.

Faithful, are often warned about these institutions, and therefore, again, people may become confused when they see Eastern Catholics, and in particular may think that these too are to be avoided.

The days of putting up a picture of the reigning pontiff, anywhere in the Church, to show one's full communion status, are gone. There are in fact many websites which show pictures of Benedict XVI portrait inside churches outside of communion with Rome.

What I had always thought would be a good way to make local Roman Catholic's more knowledgeable about the Eastern Catholics (and by extension, the Orthodox) would have been to have a diocesan-wide Eastern Catholic Sunday. Perhaps, all the local EC clergy and communities could be invited to the Roman cathedral for an Eastern liturgy and subsequently have a food fair and information booths or seminars afterwards to educate the local population.

Anyway just my two cents.

LC2K

#340836 - 01/07/10 05:04 PM Re: no respect from Latin Rite Catholics [Re: theophan]  
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likethethief Offline
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Christ is Baptized!

First, mea culpa if my previous post had any potential Latin bashing tones. I am challenged by my Latin parish/Latin life and sometimes I do "process" that frustration where I think it's safe to do so, but I don't want to be encouraging bashing. Sometimes I'm just naive (or you might say usually I'm naive smile )

Originally Posted by Irish Melkite

in our real-life communities, there are many such - not the least of whom were those Latin clergy who gave unstintingly of themselves for decades to serve our parishes and peoples, as best they could, when we had not enough priests of our own ...
Neil


Yes! to all you said, especially this comment.

In my case we have been served by bi-ritual priests since the founding of the parish in the 50's. Without the Jesuits who trained in Rome for the Russian Apostolate and served them I imagine the Russian refugees who were Eastern Catholic would either have untimately moved into Latin or Orthodox parishes here. Currently we have a wonderful Latin priest con celebrating with Fr. Eugene, learning the DL. We have also a Latin raised canonically Eastern hierodeacon, serving with Fr DK Kyril, and learning the ropes who will be ordained to the priesthood this year. Without our parish this hierodeacon might not have had an opportunity to get his Eastern serving at the altar during his current formation (Latin).

Originally Posted by theophan

We have been offered "do it yourself" home blessing "kits" for Epiphany for the past eight years in my parish. Comes with a little holy water bottle, a prayer text, a piece of chalk to mark the door posts--everything you need.

I shudder to think of the next step--a "do it yourself" home Eucharist "kit" for those Sundays when the weather is bad or one just "doesn't feel like" attending.

Sometimes I think I'm living in the Twilight Zone.
BOB


Maybe that was what Lawrence meant by "ask them what they did for Epiphany" and I didn't get the reference. I would like to start a separate thread about that because I have a different take on the "kit" you are referring to. I don't want this thread to get off on that but I'd like to talk about it more.

Last edited by likethethief; 01/07/10 05:06 PM.
#340857 - 01/07/10 08:20 PM Re: no respect from Latin Rite Catholics [Re: likethethief]  
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theophan Offline
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Quote
. . . "kit" you are referring to.


Does yours come in a plastic sandwich bag?

BOB

#340860 - 01/07/10 08:50 PM Re: no respect from Latin Rite Catholics [Re: theophan]  
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Mateusz Offline
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Yes, I did not mean to put all Latin-Rite Catholics in the same boat. Many are aware and generous to our cause and vocation to be the other lung of the Catholic Church.

#340865 - 01/07/10 09:38 PM Re: no respect from Latin Rite Catholics [Re: Mateusz]  
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We have been offered "do it yourself" home blessing "kits" for Epiphany for the past eight years in my parish. Comes with a little holy water bottle, a prayer text, a piece of chalk to mark the door posts--everything you need.


To be fair, would it be physically feasible for a RC priest to visit the home of every parishioner to bless, being that each parish has so many parishioners-- doesn't it?

At least this very important tradition is not being forgotten and discarded. That is a good thing.

This reminds me of something else that is ideally supposed to be administered by the priest...In the Greek Orthodox church we used to take home Holy Unction to annoint absent family members ourselves. My priest is the only one I have ever heard say that he will not allow that, because it is the Priest that is supposed to annoint this oil, and that he welcomes phone calls to go visit shut ins and those in the hospital so he can annoint them, and that the congregation should not hesitate to call him for these visits. That is wonderful of him to find the time in his busy schedule to do, but the size of our parish congregation is probably nothing in comparison to most RC parishes.

Even with house blessings, parishioners are supposed to set up a time for the priest to visit if they want their house blessed...I don't think that every parishioner has their house blessed annually...so, perhaps the 'kits' are getting more houses blessed than if the priest needed to do it!!!

Also, regarding the 'kit' you mentioned--The chalk on top of the door sounds like the Orthodox tradition of marking the sign of the cross on the top of the door posts after the Resurrection with the lit candle from the service. I had never heard of this RC tradition before. I would like to hear more about it.

Just some thoughts. :-)
Alice


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