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Rosary #340720 01/06/10 11:42 AM
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JW55 Offline OP
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I recently attended a Eastern Catholic Church (Ruthenian) and we arrived before begining of the Divine Liturgy. A small group of people were present and saying the Rosary. It was very similar to that used in the Latin Church,with a few minor variations. Is it a common practice to say ther Rosary in the Eastern Rite Churches? If so, what variations are typically used? I was under the impression that it was not typically said in the Eastern Church setting as a group, but if used was considered more of a private devotion.

Re: Rosary [Re: JW55] #340721 01/06/10 12:43 PM
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sielos ilgesys Offline
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Methinks praying the rosary before Divine Liturgy at a Byzantine parish is a latinism. It is a beautiful form of devotion to the Theotokos but, as you say, it ought to be prayed privately by Eastern Catholics who are devoted to it. It seems more proper to me that before the Liturgy Orthros or the Third Hour be prayed publically.

I think we Eastern Catholics would be better advised to re-introduce our own proper liturgical services; and I do believe that's what most of our communities are doing - more slowly in some places and faster in others.

Re: Rosary [Re: sielos ilgesys] #340728 01/06/10 02:59 PM
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JW,

The Rosary is a private devotion, but sometimes there are several pious believers who prepare themselves and the parish for Divine Liturgy by leading this devotion. Forty years ago most of our parishes had "Rosary Societies" and "Sodalities" whose members led the Rosary, either monthly or weekly before the Liturgy. There are still remnants, but time demands, ridicule and a general slackening of spiritual vitality have greatly reduced the frequency.

I recall the Rosary with traditional chant, in Rusyn, with the Eastern Angelic salutation. In the midst of the Hail Mary there would be a very short ejaculation related to the particular mystery. This, I believe, was the traditional Rusyn way of praying the Rosary. Yes, this was a latinization, but it also reflected the pious tradition of devotion to the Borodicen.

Theoretically, it is better to precede the DL with Matins, but practically this would be difficult because our priests have two or three parishes. Their Sunday morning schedules are extremely busy; in many parishes it includes 30-60 minutes of one-way travel. Try scheduling a 7am Matins ( DL ending approx 9:15 AM and then a 11am Matins with DL ending about 1:15pm. I believe you would see a good percentage of the congregation leaving to attend the local RC Mass.

There are two solutions:
1. A great increase in priestly and cantor vocations
2. The priest taking time with devoted cantors who will take the time to learn the Hours and arrive early enough to lead Third Hour.

There will probably be many on this forum who may have issues with my post, but does anyone have any other practical solutions. Forbidding the Rosary without substituting another devotion is potentially destructive to the spiritual vitality of the parish.

Fr Deacon Paul

Re: Rosary [Re: sielos ilgesys] #340729 01/06/10 03:00 PM
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Isn't the Rosary a bit "un-Byzantine" in itself? It concentrates mostly on the, so to say, "humanly" aspects of the Redemption, as opposed to Byzantine stressing of "divine" aspects (which of course can't be totally separated). At least this is my impression.

Re: Rosary [Re: PeterPeter] #340732 01/06/10 04:52 PM
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Originally Posted by PeterPeter
Isn't the Rosary a bit "un-Byzantine" in itself? It concentrates mostly on the, so to say, "humanly" aspects of the Redemption, as opposed to Byzantine stressing of "divine" aspects (which of course can't be totally separated). At least this is my impression.


The new Luminous Mysteries, introduced by JPII, filled in part of this gap.

If you try to match Troparia with the Rosary, the Joyful mysteries, Annunciation, Nativity, Presentation match up nicely.
The sorrowful mysteries individually don't match up well.
The Glorious Mysteries, Pascha, Ascension,Pentecost, Dormition and Coronation (Protection, Oct 1 Kondak match well.
The Luminous Mysteries.. Theophany and Transfiguration have appropriate Troparia as meditation.

And all of the mysteries have scriptural references.

Again, ideally Matins or Third Hour are more appropriate for the Eastern Churches, but ......

Fr Deacon Paul

Re: Rosary [Re: Paul B] #340735 01/06/10 05:19 PM
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The Eparchs of Van Nuys have, over the years, reminded that the rosary should never replace the canonical hours, but may be offered publicly in addition.


Re: Rosary [Re: aramis] #340739 01/06/10 05:44 PM
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After reading the schedules for Divine Services of several hundred parishes in the past couple of years, in conjunction with building the Directory, I can say that there are significantly fewer that list a public recitation of the Rosary as one such service than was the case a few years back.

That's not to say that there aren't instances in which it is either being done and just not listed, or organized and done informally.

Many years,

Neil


"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."
Re: Rosary [Re: aramis] #340753 01/06/10 08:46 PM
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I see and appreciate the pastoral wisdom of these hierarchs' directives.(Van Nuys eparchs) The last thing ANY Catholic would want to do is take a set of rosary beads and (so to speak) strangle its devotees with it.
Arbitrary high-handedness on the part of hierarchs is unbelievably damaging. As a priest I know says, "Ya ain't been hurt till ya been hurt by the Church."

Re: Rosary [Re: sielos ilgesys] #340755 01/06/10 08:58 PM
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An interesting thought on the Byzantine Rosary
Byzantine Rosary Byzantine Rosary article

Re: Rosary [Re: Pani Rose] #340758 01/06/10 10:23 PM
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Surely if this kind of public devotion is considered helpful, in a setting where the singing of the hours is not possible, it would be more appropriate to introduce the sadly neglected Hymnos Akathistos? It's beautiful...

Re: Rosary [Re: Precentrix] #340767 01/07/10 03:47 AM
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A priest was newly assigned to a certain rather latinized Byzantine Catholic parish. A group of people asked him to allow them to continue praying the rosary before Divine Liturgy. He indicated his intent to phase it out slowly over the next few months and re-introduce more properly Byzantine practices in its place. The group insisted they be allowed to contniue the rosary so he told them if they could find a Latin-rite parish where the Akathist to the Theotokos was sung prior to Mass, he'd consider allowing the rosary to continue in his parish.

Of course such a situation did not exist anywhere so now the parish in question has embraced the Third Hour before Divine Liturgy, and very few feelings were hurt in the process. Which in itself was a kind of miracle.

Re: Rosary [Re: sielos ilgesys] #340770 01/07/10 04:58 AM
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I agree with you all totally!

Re: Rosary [Re: Precentrix] #340790 01/07/10 01:33 PM
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Sielos:

If the hours are not sung, then the appropriate mode next is to say them, or, failing that, to say the chotki. The akathists and other non-hours paraliturgicals are supposed to be in addition to, not in place of, the vital hours (matins, vespers, even third hour).

The chotki, however, is specifically a form for replacement of the hours, especially the lesser hours (6th, 9th, compline); in group, however, it still should be the hours if at all possible.

Niel:
We have two old Slavo-Romans who lead the rosary before 3rd hour. One's made the canonical leap to the Ruthenian church, but holds on to their rosary. It's about 9:15 on sundays. Never advertized, and officially, merely pious practice by the faithful spontaneously.

Last edited by aramis; 01/07/10 01:35 PM.
Re: Rosary [Re: aramis] #340910 01/08/10 02:23 PM
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1) The Sacraments.

2) The Hours.

3) All other devotions.

It's not rocket science. Especially now most people can actually read.

Actually, in the West, the Rosary is traditionally considered the 'layman's psalter' and for certain reasons can replace the recitation of the Hours - for example, amongst those who wear the brown scapular of Our Lady of Mount Carmel. And I'm far too biased to discourage anyone from praying it... privately or publicly. But it strikes me as weird that we give it priority over the Church's liturgy.

Re: Rosary [Re: sielos ilgesys] #340918 01/08/10 03:32 PM
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FWIW...

While I have never heard it sung in a Latin church, the Akathist is included, in French, in the hymnal from the traditional parishes I used to attend in France.

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