The Byzantine Forum
Newest Members
Augoustinos, Poliscifi, The Cub, P H, Hardrada
5604 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 485 guests, and 563 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Latest Photos
Church of the Holy Trinity (UGCC) - Brazil
Papal Audience 10 November 2017
Upgraded Russian icon corner
Russian Greek Catholic Global Congress
OL EuroEast II (2007) Group
Forum Statistics
Forums26
Topics34,744
Posts412,001
Members5,604
Most Online2,716
Jun 7th, 2012
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3
Any hope of the RDL being revoked? #322102 05/15/09 12:09 AM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 368
R
Robert K. Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
R
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 368
Is there any hope that the revised DL with eventually (if not immediatly) be supressed any time soon? Do individual BC parishes have the right to still use the old DL (either under indult or by personal choice)?

It seeems a real shame that just when the BC is goign through enough trouble with declining membership and church closings, this stuff has to come along and cause so much friction with loyal parishioners.

Also, do all BC churches have to use this liturgy, even non Ruthenian ones (like the Italo-Greek parishes on staten Island and Las vegas)?

Re: Any hope of the RDL being revoked? [Re: Robert K.] #322116 05/15/09 06:46 AM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,564
F
Fr Serge Keleher Offline
Member
Offline
Member
F
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,564
First of all, the large majority of "Byzantine Catholic" parishes in the USA have no connection with the Pittsburgh Metropolia.

If you're looking for an opinion, I would say that in view of the precedent established by Summorum Pontificum, nobody has successfully abrogated the normal Divine Liturgy, nor is anyone likely to do so.

The most recent development is the appointment of a new Secretary of the Oriental Congregation - he both speaks and reads English, so is likelier to pay attention to protests over this liturgical atrocity.

Fr. Serge

Re: Any hope of the RDL being revoked? [Re: Fr Serge Keleher] #322163 05/15/09 09:00 PM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 368
R
Robert K. Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
R
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 368
Well, how many Byzantine parishes have outright rejected the RDL? Are there some ?Eparchs who are more leniant over this then others?

Re: Any hope of the RDL being revoked? [Re: Robert K.] #322183 05/16/09 12:26 AM
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 700
A
aramis Offline
Member
Offline
Member
A
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 700
Within the Pittsburgh Metropolitan Church (including the Eparchies of Passaic, Parma, and Van Nuys), the only approved english text for the Divine Liturgy is the green book (and the corresponding priest's books).

If pastors are using the Slavonic (still an option) they are permitted the last approved Slavonic texts (which were used for the Blue) sans the filioque.

The other Byzantine Rite Catholics in the US use their own translations as approved by their synods.

Re: Any hope of the RDL being revoked? [Re: Robert K.] #322191 05/16/09 02:28 AM
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 46
Lady Byzantine Offline
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 46
Originally Posted by Robert K.
Well, how many Byzantine parishes have outright rejected the RDL? Are there some ?Eparchs who are more leniant over this then others?

I know some Parma priests who are slowly putting the liturgy back the way it should be. And my pastor tells me that in Pittsburgh about 25-30% of the parishes never started the RDL. There is a question whether the bishops have the right to prohibit the full liturgy. The RDL is pretty awful and everyone knows it. It will not last much longer. Bishop John is pretty strange when he talks about it. He says it should be taken from the official books at the same time he admits its awful. We are ready to put the old books back. The pope certainly never approved this. And it looks like Bishop Pataki bought the approval from the Congregation. I see here that even Father Taft never endorsed it and has openly rejected it.

Re: Any hope of the RDL being revoked? [Re: Fr Serge Keleher] #322192 05/16/09 02:29 AM
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 46
Lady Byzantine Offline
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 46
Originally Posted by Serge Keleher
If you're looking for an opinion, I would say that in view of the precedent established by Summorum Pontificum, nobody has successfully abrogated the normal Divine Liturgy, nor is anyone likely to do so.

The most recent development is the appointment of a new Secretary of the Oriental Congregation - he both speaks and reads English, so is likelier to pay attention to protests over this liturgical atrocity.

Fr. Serge

Are you saying we should write more letters? I am willing. And I know several others who are frustrated enough with the RDL to write.

Re: Any hope of the RDL being revoked? [Re: Lady Byzantine] #324193 06/05/09 09:00 PM
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 46
Lady Byzantine Offline
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 46
Anyone? Should we keep writing? Or is it a lost cause?

Re: Any hope of the RDL being revoked? [Re: Lady Byzantine] #324219 06/06/09 09:22 AM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,564
F
Fr Serge Keleher Offline
Member
Offline
Member
F
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,564
Certainly - write lots of letters. It's important that the folks in Rome don't get the impression that we've all gone away!

Fr. Serge

Re: Any hope of the RDL being revoked? [Re: Fr Serge Keleher] #336708 11/08/09 10:28 PM
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 46
Lady Byzantine Offline
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 46
I think Rome doesn't care about us. They don't respond to letters.

Re: Any hope of the RDL being revoked? [Re: Lady Byzantine] #341082 01/10/10 02:09 PM
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 206
Kathleen Elsie Offline
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 206
They may not respond but they do hear you. When the noise gets loud enough they will respond if the Bishops support you it won't take as long. If not it could be forty years.

Re: Any hope of the RDL being revoked? [Re: Kathleen Elsie] #341089 01/10/10 06:17 PM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 7,309
S
StuartK Offline
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 7,309
Within the Pittsburgh Metropolitan Church (including the Eparchies of Passaic, Parma, and Van Nuys), the only approved english text for the Divine Liturgy is the green book (and the corresponding priest's books).

That is true--but it is also irrelevant. Quite a number of parishes never adopted the Teal Terror, quite a few that did have gone back to the 1965 Book, while yet others have opted to use the new text with the old music. The attitude of the different hierarchs varies from indifference to tacit consent--the voice of the collection box speaks loudly indeed. Only in Passaic was there near universal adoption of the RDL, due to Bishop Andrew's particular management style (Stalinism lite). Under Bishop William (who, when he celebrates, seems blithely unaware of the text and rubrics he is supposed to be using" the degree of pushback against the new liturgy is increasing. My guess is in a couple of years it will be just one of several different forms being used in the Metropolia, and that we will probably not see widespread implementation of a reformed Basil or Presanctified, let alone Vespers and Orthros.

Re: Any hope of the RDL being revoked? [Re: StuartK] #341119 01/10/10 11:00 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 41
J
Jason D Offline
Member
Offline
Member
J
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 41
I've been reading this forum for a long time but finally registered.

I don't understand the new liturgy. I thought the Vatican was telling us to restore our liturgy and our traditions?

So why did the bishops abandon them and do a rewrite on the liturgy? It's sort of like PC-Episcopalian-Lite.

I asked Bishop William if there was any chance of going back to the old liturgy. He looked at me as if I was an idiot and walked away. So I think there is probably no hope when the bishops hate the liturgy and the people.

Re: Any hope of the RDL being revoked? [Re: Jason D] #341121 01/10/10 11:05 PM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 7,309
S
StuartK Offline
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 7,309
Things in Passaic are never simple.

Re: Any hope of the RDL being revoked? [Re: StuartK] #341182 01/11/10 08:38 PM
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 46
Lady Byzantine Offline
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 46
Parma's got to be worse. Priests can take any latinism they want. Rosaries. Stations of the Cross. Divine Mercy. They can do pretty much anything except the full and real Liturgy. The only think a priest can get in trouble for is if he takes a forbidden prayer that is found in the form of a litany.

They will continue to reform until all the people are gone.

Then they will insult the people about how stupid they were.

It shouldn't take a rocket scientist to understand that if what you are doing drives people away you should stop doing it! Duh!

Re: Any hope of the RDL being revoked? [Re: Jason D] #341185 01/11/10 09:48 PM
Joined: Aug 1998
Posts: 4,157
Fr. Deacon Lance Offline
Moderator
Member
Offline
Moderator
Member
Joined: Aug 1998
Posts: 4,157
Originally Posted by Jason D
So I think there is probably no hope when the bishops hate the liturgy and the people.


That the bishops disagree with your opinion does not mean they hate the liturgy or the people. But comments like the above are certainly not going to endear you or your cause to them.


My cromulent posts embiggen this forum.
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3

Moderated by  Father Anthony 

The Byzantine Forum provides message boards for discussions focusing on Eastern Christianity (though discussions of other topics are welcome). The views expressed herein are those of the participants and may or may not reflect the teachings of the Byzantine Catholic or any other Church. The Byzantine Forum and the www.byzcath.org site exist to help build up the Church but are unofficial, have no connection with any Church entity, and should not be looked to as a source for official information for any Church. All posts become property of byzcath.org. Contents copyright - 1996-2019 (Forum 1998-2019). All rights reserved.
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.3