The Byzantine Forum
Newest Members
hydra, Kind, Augoustinos, Poliscifi, The Cub
5606 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
1 registered members (1 invisible), 93 guests, and 443 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Latest Photos
Church of the Holy Trinity (UGCC) - Brazil
Papal Audience 10 November 2017
Upgraded Russian icon corner
Russian Greek Catholic Global Congress
OL EuroEast II (2007) Group
Forum Statistics
Forums26
Topics34,756
Posts412,069
Members5,606
Most Online2,716
Jun 7th, 2012
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 2 of 3 1 2 3
Re: Any hope of the RDL being revoked? [Re: Fr. Deacon Lance] #341188 01/11/10 10:39 PM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 7,309
S
StuartK Offline
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 7,309
By their fruits shall ye know them.

Re: Any hope of the RDL being revoked? [Re: Fr. Deacon Lance] #341195 01/11/10 11:36 PM
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 46
Lady Byzantine Offline
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 46
Originally Posted by Fr. Deacon Lance
Originally Posted by Jason D
So I think there is probably no hope when the bishops hate the liturgy and the people.


That the bishops disagree with your opinion does not mean they hate the liturgy or the people. But comments like the above are certainly not going to endear you or your cause to them.

They treat people like dog droppings. They manufacture a liturgy that chases people out the door. At the very least it certainly means that they do not care about the liturgy or the people.

It's really sad. And scandalous. The bishops hurt us big time. And we are suppose forgive them and be obedient and live with the ongoing hurt?

I thought they were the ones who were supposed to be the icons of Christ?

Re: Any hope of the RDL being revoked? [Re: Lady Byzantine] #341196 01/11/10 11:59 PM
Joined: Aug 1998
Posts: 4,157
Fr. Deacon Lance Offline
Moderator
Member
Offline
Moderator
Member
Joined: Aug 1998
Posts: 4,157
Originally Posted by Lady Byzantine
The bishops hurt us big time. And we are suppose forgive them and be obedient and live with the ongoing hurt?

Yes. Christ said to forgive 7x70 and to take up your cross and follow him.

Originally Posted by Lady Byzantine
I thought they were the ones who were supposed to be the icons of Christ?

Your supposed to be an icon of Christ too.


My cromulent posts embiggen this forum.
Re: Any hope of the RDL being revoked? [Re: Fr. Deacon Lance] #341198 01/12/10 12:35 AM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 7,309
S
StuartK Offline
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 7,309
Quote
Yes. Christ said to forgive 7x70 and to take up your cross and follow him.


I don't think Christ thought the Apostles were supposed to be a cross to the people. In any case, I can forgive the Their Graces, but I cannot overlook the evil that they did--nor, for that matter, can I remain silent and thus become complicit in that evil. There must be metanoia, the bishops must acknowledge their shortcomings.

Quote
Your [sic] supposed to be an icon of Christ too.


I think I want to be the one with the knotted cords, cleansing the Temple.

Re: Any hope of the RDL being revoked? [Re: StuartK] #341199 01/12/10 12:36 AM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 7,309
S
StuartK Offline
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 7,309
Quote
They treat people like dog droppings.


My favorite quote from some Chancery drone: "The bishop doesn't speak to ordinary people".

Re: Any hope of the RDL being revoked? [Re: StuartK] #341218 01/12/10 05:02 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 58
L
LiturgicalStuff Offline
Member
Offline
Member
L
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 58
Originally Posted by StuartK
Quote
They treat people like dog droppings.


My favorite quote from some Chancery drone: "The bishop doesn't speak to ordinary people".


And unfortunatelly it is soooooo true!

Re: Any hope of the RDL being revoked? [Re: LiturgicalStuff] #341225 01/12/10 08:45 AM
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 700
A
aramis Offline
Member
Offline
Member
A
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 700
I've had no problem with Eparchs George, William, nor Gerald; all three of their excellencies said the black, did the red, and were approachable after liturgy... at least when they came to Alaska. They listened, talked, and made it clear the knew the people had a right to approach the bishop on issues.

Stuart: I'd say it's time to present that chancery drone with a copy of the CCEO canon 15

Re: Any hope of the RDL being revoked? [Re: aramis] #341229 01/12/10 11:51 AM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 7,309
S
StuartK Offline
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 7,309
Since his accession to the most eminent throne of Passaic, Bishop William has habitually celebrated in what can best be called an idiosyncratic fashion; pastorally, he has not demonstrated much in the way of leadership, though he has taken some tentative steps to reverse the damage inflicted by his predecessor (who, though, for some reason, he kept on as syncellus, which sent mixed messages at best). His Grace has continued the policy of ignoring ordinary people, as though the Church still consisted of priests, cantors and illiterate peasants.

From all accounts, Bishop George was a most excellent pastor who took his liturgical and pastoral duties seriously; peculiarly for a Ruthenian bishop, he actually understood the importance of a strong monastic witness and supported the establishment and growth of Holy Resurrection Monastery. His successor, Bishop William, was openly hostile to the monks, actually placing them under interdict. Their departure for the Romanian Exarchate was largely his doing, and did immense damage to the Ruthenian Church.

I have not had the opportunity of experiencing Bishop Gerald, but nothing I saw of him as a priest inspired me with optimism.

Re: Any hope of the RDL being revoked? [Re: StuartK] #341232 01/12/10 02:51 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 19
Pilgrim66 Offline
Junior Member
Offline
Junior Member
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 19
As someone on the outside of this argument, I am wondering what are the are the supposed benefits for these changes?

Re: Any hope of the RDL being revoked? [Re: Pilgrim66] #341246 01/12/10 10:51 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 41
J
Jason D Offline
Member
Offline
Member
J
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 41
Originally Posted by Pilgrim66
As someone on the outside of this argument, I am wondering what are the are the supposed benefits for these changes?

Political correctness is the first benefit.

Music no one likes or can sing is the second benefit.

Driving away the faithful if the third benefit.

At least with the old liturgy we knew the words and could actually sing the music.

Re: Any hope of the RDL being revoked? [Re: Jason D] #341255 01/13/10 02:13 AM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 19
Pilgrim66 Offline
Junior Member
Offline
Junior Member
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 19
I truely hope this is not the first step in taking away your customs and traditions. I have seen too much of this in my own church and really hate to see tradition and reverence destroyed in the name of progress. I wonder if perhaps this is the first step in trying to make your rite more Roman. I really hope this is not the case.

Re: Any hope of the RDL being revoked? [Re: Pilgrim66] #341273 01/13/10 07:48 AM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,564
F
Fr Serge Keleher Offline
Member
Offline
Member
F
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,564
There is always hope, and hope is one of the Christian virtues. That said, I suggest a Ukrainian parish, a Romanian parish, a Melkite parish, or a Russian parish (yes, there are a few Russian Greek-Catholic parishes in the USA), all of which are untouched by the RDL.

Fr. Serge

Re: Any hope of the RDL being revoked? [Re: Fr Serge Keleher] #341276 01/13/10 01:02 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 19
Pilgrim66 Offline
Junior Member
Offline
Junior Member
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 19
The thing that I find unfortunate is when something is changed for the worse eventually the people that remember the way something used to be die out and then the only thing remembered is the new practice. As an example I am 43 years old and going through life I fell away from the church after highschool through my college years. Upon my return I found a much different Roman Catholic church than I left. I grew up in a parish that would be considered very traditional by todays standards and Im am continually dismayed by what I encounter at mass sometimes. From my perspective it seems like its a process to make religion more user friendly for the people but at what cost?

Re: Any hope of the RDL being revoked? [Re: Fr Serge Keleher] #341286 01/13/10 04:17 PM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 209
B
ByzBob Offline
Member
Offline
Member
B
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 209
The Ukrainian Church in my area also uses inclusive language. Hopefully that will be changing, but in the interim there is nowhere else to attend in my area, so I suffer with the RDL. Of course, there are always the Orthodox. The problem there is the breaking of communion with the rest of the family. I have to wonder why union with Rome equates to poor liturgical practices (at least in this area)?

Re: Any hope of the RDL being revoked? [Re: ByzBob] #341288 01/13/10 04:32 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 58
L
LiturgicalStuff Offline
Member
Offline
Member
L
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 58
And still, where can be found the complete service books acording to the RDL ? And what was the general impact of RDL? As far as I am concerned I only read Saint John Chrysostom's Divine Liturgy in the RDL form and I was... astonished of what one could find there...

Page 2 of 3 1 2 3

Moderated by  Father Anthony 

The Byzantine Forum provides message boards for discussions focusing on Eastern Christianity (though discussions of other topics are welcome). The views expressed herein are those of the participants and may or may not reflect the teachings of the Byzantine Catholic or any other Church. The Byzantine Forum and the www.byzcath.org site exist to help build up the Church but are unofficial, have no connection with any Church entity, and should not be looked to as a source for official information for any Church. All posts become property of byzcath.org. Contents copyright - 1996-2019 (Forum 1998-2019). All rights reserved.
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.3