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Re: Any hope of the RDL being revoked? [Re: Fr. Deacon Lance] #341188
01/11/10 10:39 PM
01/11/10 10:39 PM
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Falls Church, VA
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StuartK Offline
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By their fruits shall ye know them.

Re: Any hope of the RDL being revoked? [Re: Fr. Deacon Lance] #341195
01/11/10 11:36 PM
01/11/10 11:36 PM
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 46
Cleveland, Ohio
Lady Byzantine Offline
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Lady Byzantine  Offline
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Originally Posted by Fr. Deacon Lance
Originally Posted by Jason D
So I think there is probably no hope when the bishops hate the liturgy and the people.


That the bishops disagree with your opinion does not mean they hate the liturgy or the people. But comments like the above are certainly not going to endear you or your cause to them.

They treat people like dog droppings. They manufacture a liturgy that chases people out the door. At the very least it certainly means that they do not care about the liturgy or the people.

It's really sad. And scandalous. The bishops hurt us big time. And we are suppose forgive them and be obedient and live with the ongoing hurt?

I thought they were the ones who were supposed to be the icons of Christ?

Re: Any hope of the RDL being revoked? [Re: Lady Byzantine] #341196
01/11/10 11:59 PM
01/11/10 11:59 PM
Joined: Aug 1998
Posts: 4,157
Washington, PA
Fr. Deacon Lance Offline
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Originally Posted by Lady Byzantine
The bishops hurt us big time. And we are suppose forgive them and be obedient and live with the ongoing hurt?

Yes. Christ said to forgive 7x70 and to take up your cross and follow him.

Originally Posted by Lady Byzantine
I thought they were the ones who were supposed to be the icons of Christ?

Your supposed to be an icon of Christ too.


My cromulent posts embiggen this forum.
Re: Any hope of the RDL being revoked? [Re: Fr. Deacon Lance] #341198
01/12/10 12:35 AM
01/12/10 12:35 AM
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Falls Church, VA
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StuartK Offline
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Quote
Yes. Christ said to forgive 7x70 and to take up your cross and follow him.


I don't think Christ thought the Apostles were supposed to be a cross to the people. In any case, I can forgive the Their Graces, but I cannot overlook the evil that they did--nor, for that matter, can I remain silent and thus become complicit in that evil. There must be metanoia, the bishops must acknowledge their shortcomings.

Quote
Your [sic] supposed to be an icon of Christ too.


I think I want to be the one with the knotted cords, cleansing the Temple.

Re: Any hope of the RDL being revoked? [Re: StuartK] #341199
01/12/10 12:36 AM
01/12/10 12:36 AM
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Falls Church, VA
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StuartK Offline
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Quote
They treat people like dog droppings.


My favorite quote from some Chancery drone: "The bishop doesn't speak to ordinary people".

Re: Any hope of the RDL being revoked? [Re: StuartK] #341218
01/12/10 05:02 AM
01/12/10 05:02 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 58
Romania
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LiturgicalStuff Offline
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Originally Posted by StuartK
Quote
They treat people like dog droppings.


My favorite quote from some Chancery drone: "The bishop doesn't speak to ordinary people".


And unfortunatelly it is soooooo true!

Re: Any hope of the RDL being revoked? [Re: LiturgicalStuff] #341225
01/12/10 08:45 AM
01/12/10 08:45 AM
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Eagle River, AK, US
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aramis Offline
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I've had no problem with Eparchs George, William, nor Gerald; all three of their excellencies said the black, did the red, and were approachable after liturgy... at least when they came to Alaska. They listened, talked, and made it clear the knew the people had a right to approach the bishop on issues.

Stuart: I'd say it's time to present that chancery drone with a copy of the CCEO canon 15

Re: Any hope of the RDL being revoked? [Re: aramis] #341229
01/12/10 11:51 AM
01/12/10 11:51 AM
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Falls Church, VA
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StuartK Offline
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Since his accession to the most eminent throne of Passaic, Bishop William has habitually celebrated in what can best be called an idiosyncratic fashion; pastorally, he has not demonstrated much in the way of leadership, though he has taken some tentative steps to reverse the damage inflicted by his predecessor (who, though, for some reason, he kept on as syncellus, which sent mixed messages at best). His Grace has continued the policy of ignoring ordinary people, as though the Church still consisted of priests, cantors and illiterate peasants.

From all accounts, Bishop George was a most excellent pastor who took his liturgical and pastoral duties seriously; peculiarly for a Ruthenian bishop, he actually understood the importance of a strong monastic witness and supported the establishment and growth of Holy Resurrection Monastery. His successor, Bishop William, was openly hostile to the monks, actually placing them under interdict. Their departure for the Romanian Exarchate was largely his doing, and did immense damage to the Ruthenian Church.

I have not had the opportunity of experiencing Bishop Gerald, but nothing I saw of him as a priest inspired me with optimism.

Re: Any hope of the RDL being revoked? [Re: StuartK] #341232
01/12/10 02:51 PM
01/12/10 02:51 PM
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Posts: 19
Pennsylvania
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As someone on the outside of this argument, I am wondering what are the are the supposed benefits for these changes?

Re: Any hope of the RDL being revoked? [Re: Pilgrim66] #341246
01/12/10 10:51 PM
01/12/10 10:51 PM
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New Jersey
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Jason D Offline
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Originally Posted by Pilgrim66
As someone on the outside of this argument, I am wondering what are the are the supposed benefits for these changes?

Political correctness is the first benefit.

Music no one likes or can sing is the second benefit.

Driving away the faithful if the third benefit.

At least with the old liturgy we knew the words and could actually sing the music.

Re: Any hope of the RDL being revoked? [Re: Jason D] #341255
01/13/10 02:13 AM
01/13/10 02:13 AM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 19
Pennsylvania
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I truely hope this is not the first step in taking away your customs and traditions. I have seen too much of this in my own church and really hate to see tradition and reverence destroyed in the name of progress. I wonder if perhaps this is the first step in trying to make your rite more Roman. I really hope this is not the case.

Re: Any hope of the RDL being revoked? [Re: Pilgrim66] #341273
01/13/10 07:48 AM
01/13/10 07:48 AM
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Posts: 5,564
Dublin
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Fr Serge Keleher Offline
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There is always hope, and hope is one of the Christian virtues. That said, I suggest a Ukrainian parish, a Romanian parish, a Melkite parish, or a Russian parish (yes, there are a few Russian Greek-Catholic parishes in the USA), all of which are untouched by the RDL.

Fr. Serge

Re: Any hope of the RDL being revoked? [Re: Fr Serge Keleher] #341276
01/13/10 01:02 PM
01/13/10 01:02 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 19
Pennsylvania
Pilgrim66 Offline
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Pennsylvania
The thing that I find unfortunate is when something is changed for the worse eventually the people that remember the way something used to be die out and then the only thing remembered is the new practice. As an example I am 43 years old and going through life I fell away from the church after highschool through my college years. Upon my return I found a much different Roman Catholic church than I left. I grew up in a parish that would be considered very traditional by todays standards and Im am continually dismayed by what I encounter at mass sometimes. From my perspective it seems like its a process to make religion more user friendly for the people but at what cost?

Re: Any hope of the RDL being revoked? [Re: Fr Serge Keleher] #341286
01/13/10 04:17 PM
01/13/10 04:17 PM
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Posts: 209
Pittsburgh
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The Ukrainian Church in my area also uses inclusive language. Hopefully that will be changing, but in the interim there is nowhere else to attend in my area, so I suffer with the RDL. Of course, there are always the Orthodox. The problem there is the breaking of communion with the rest of the family. I have to wonder why union with Rome equates to poor liturgical practices (at least in this area)?

Re: Any hope of the RDL being revoked? [Re: ByzBob] #341288
01/13/10 04:32 PM
01/13/10 04:32 PM
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Posts: 58
Romania
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And still, where can be found the complete service books acording to the RDL ? And what was the general impact of RDL? As far as I am concerned I only read Saint John Chrysostom's Divine Liturgy in the RDL form and I was... astonished of what one could find there...

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