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#342998 - 02/08/10 06:59 AM
Re: Roman and Byzantine marriage
[Re: aramis]
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Member
Registered: 06/24/09
Posts: 134
Loc: Poland
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Peter:
yes, the Ancient Church of the East, a pre-reformation schism of the Assyrian Church of the East. They also have episcopal offices passed by familial inheritance. At least according to Wikipedia this schism comes from 1964. My understanding of the hereditary succession earlier is similar to Fr Ambrose's. Further, St. Peter himself was married, as were several others of the 12. Several bishops in the various churches in the early years of the church were married. Yes, but I think we're not sure whether they were not obliged to continence.
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#343014 - 02/08/10 01:32 PM
Re: Roman and Byzantine marriage
[Re: Hieromonk Ambrose]
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Member
Registered: 04/03/09
Posts: 519
Loc: Eagle River, AK, US
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Rev. Father,
The Roman Deacon has faculties to bless; so do some non-byzantine EC deacons. It's an automatic faculty in the Roman church; it's a specific additional faculty in some EC churches.
In the case you extracted, the deacon isn't appointed on a case-by-case, but has general and standing faculties to perform weddings.
If no priest (Catholic or Orthodox) is available, however, it's licit, since any two witnesses can stand in, but still not blessed. Next priest they see, it gets blessed, that gets annotated, and the sacrament is fulfilled in completeness and fully licit.
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#343042 - 02/08/10 04:53 PM
Re: Roman and Byzantine marriage
[Re: aramis]
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Member
Registered: 03/22/06
Posts: 1036
Loc: New Zealand
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Rev. Father,
The Roman Deacon has faculties to bless; so do some non-byzantine EC deacons. It's an automatic faculty in the Roman church; it's a specific additional faculty in some EC churches..
The CCEO which speaks of a bishop or priest being "present" and "blessing" a marriage is using weasel words since it quite obscures the fact that the priest is the minister of the marriage. Perhaps the intention is the eventual eradication of the Eastern theology which requires a priest not as a witness nor as a "blessor" but as the necessary minister? Thus Eastern matrimonial theology would be displaced by Western. A deacon can no more officiate at a marriage than he can change bread and wine at a Eucharist or give absolution in Confession.
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#343045 - 02/08/10 05:51 PM
Re: Roman and Byzantine marriage
[Re: Hieromonk Ambrose]
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Member
Registered: 11/09/01
Posts: 2996
Loc: Falls Church, VA
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Goodness, the Eschaton is upon us! Father Ambrose and I agree.
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#343415 - 02/13/10 05:36 PM
Re: Roman and Byzantine marriage
[Re: Logos - Alexis]
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Member
Registered: 11/22/07
Posts: 690
Loc: Las Vegas
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It would be news to me to learn that Eastern Catholics believe Latin Rite Catholics married by a deacon are in fact fornicators.
The "law" argument works better.
When an Eastern Catholic and a Roman Catholic are "married" by a deacon, an annulment will issue, as there is not a valid marriage. However, those in an invalid marriage are not generally seen as fornicators.
Do Eastern Catholic churches permit a dispensation for Eastern Catholics to be married to a baptized non-Catholic in a Protestant service?
Given that the marriage by a Roman Catholic deacon wouldn't be valid, I don't see how this possibly could be . . .
The reference is to the exercise of oekonomia in danger of death or instances of being without recourse to pastoral care for a protracted time (the Canon says a month, but I doubt one could find a place in the world today where it would be impossible to find a presbyter for a month - with the possible exception of Antarctica).
I rather doubt that anyone has been able to legitimately invoke a need to seek use of this oekonomia since WWII prison camps were liberated.
China hawk
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