The Byzantine Forum
Newest Members
OrbisNonSufficit, SergLts, RusFrog, JanSorman, Icons
5654 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 150 guests, and 187 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Latest Photos
Byzantine Nebraska
Church of the Holy Trinity (UGCC) - Brazil
Papal Audience 10 November 2017
Upgraded Russian icon corner
Russian Greek Catholic Global Congress
Forum Statistics
Forums26
Topics34,866
Posts412,726
Members5,654
Most Online3,380
Dec 29th, 2019
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 3 of 3 1 2 3
Re: We Will Have To Choose Between Orthodoxy and Liberalism [Re: Athanasius The L] #343345 02/12/10 07:09 PM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 7,309
S
StuartK Offline
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 7,309
Why, thank you, Ryan.

Re: We Will Have To Choose Between Orthodoxy and Liberalism [Re: StuartK] #343348 02/12/10 07:51 PM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,284
Athanasius The L Offline
AthanasiusTheLesser
Member
Offline
AthanasiusTheLesser
Member
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,284
Your welcome, Stuart.

Re: We Will Have To Choose Between Orthodoxy and Liberalism [Re: Athanasius The L] #343350 02/12/10 08:15 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,214
Terry Bohannon Offline
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,214
One point I would like to make is in regards to nationalism. I say this to help explain the point of view that some find offensive, not to make any claim about Orthodoxy and the Byzantine legacy of Russia being the Third Rome.

There were very destructive forms of nationalism in the late 19th and early 20th century. This sense of nationalism infected all schools of thought, especially with music, science, art, and philosophy. German Idealism from the late 1800s fueled the radical philosophy of the National Socialists and their pursuit of the purification of what they called the Aryan race. That extreme of nationalism, combined with observations of other extremes in China, Cambodia, and the Soviet Union, leaves very strong imprint on the West so that any strain of nationalism is questioned and presumed to be potentially dangerous.

Hearing Russia regarded as "The Third Rome" it can be difficult for an American to separate the Church from the State, so that a response to the State can also be seen as a distrust of the Church.

Re: We Will Have To Choose Between Orthodoxy and Liberalism [Re: Terry Bohannon] #343355 02/13/10 12:36 AM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 7,309
S
StuartK Offline
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 7,309
I will say one of the things I like most about the Melkites is the absence of the nationalities nonsense.

As to Russia being the "Third Rome", it was polemical when first uttered, it is polemical today, and worse still, not true. Also, my main complaint about the Orthodox Church in Russia is not that it interferes in the activities of the state, but that it has subordinated itself to the state as though it was 1900 all over again. Russians may not remember, but we historians do, that the Orthodox Church was merely a department of the Russian civil service from Peter the Great until 1917.

Say what you want about Byzantium, the Church was never subordinate to the crown, but a real synergia existed which ceased to exist in Russia from the end of the 17th century.

Re: We Will Have To Choose Between Orthodoxy and Liberalism [Re: StuartK] #343361 02/13/10 02:59 AM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,505
Hieromonk Ambrose Offline
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,505
Originally Posted by StuartK

As to Russia being the "Third Rome", it was polemical when first uttered, it is polemical today, and worse still, not true. .


You will be happy to know that Russia as the Third Rome is not a serious idea in church circles and among the hierarchy in Russia.

Nevertheless there are possibilities for Russia to slowly emerge as the most important Church within Orthodoxy. But that will have nothing to do with airy fairy ideas of a Third Rome.

Re: We Will Have To Choose Between Orthodoxy and Liberalism [Re: Athanasius The L] #343366 02/13/10 05:50 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,133
Father Borislav Offline
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,133
Stuart, what is wrong with being a Russophile?

Just wondering...

Re: We Will Have To Choose Between Orthodoxy and Liberalism [Re: Father Borislav] #343371 02/13/10 08:04 AM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,505
Hieromonk Ambrose Offline
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,505
Originally Posted by Deacon Borislav
Stuart, what is wrong with being a Russophile?

Just wondering...


I was wondering that too, Father Deacon. There seems to be a lot more love of the fatherland among American youth. About 60,000 of them have been willing to die in overseas wars for their country.

Deaths in Vietnam were 58,000.

In Afghanistan, about a 1,000.

In Iraq, about a 1,000.


Re: We Will Have To Choose Between Orthodoxy and Liberalism [Re: Hieromonk Ambrose] #343375 02/13/10 01:31 PM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 7,309
S
StuartK Offline
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 7,309
Nothing is wrong with being a Russophile, provided you remain objective and keep a sound perspective. Russia is a country with very serious, possibly intractable problems, which it needs to face and address squarely. Because of its failure so far to do so, Russia has not lived up to the potential that opened when the Soviet Union collapsed. Putinism is not the answer, nor are attempts to resurrect an empire in the near abroad. Unless present trends are reversed, there will be fewer than 100 million Russians by 2025, and a quarter of those will be Muslims. Unless economic and political reforms are implemented, Russia will collapse economically and socially long before then, which is a global concern because of Russia's large nuclear stockpiles, which could easily wind up in the wrong hands. Were it not for its nuclear weapons, nobody would much care what happens to Russia, because its economy is only the size of New Jersey's--but it is New Jersey with 6,000 nuclear warheads.

As for the Russian Church, it has the potential to be the instrument of moral renewal in Russia, but its overly close association with the state continues to deprive it of moral legitimacy, as does its inability to face up to its own past actions in the Soviet era. Like everyone else in Russia, under Putin it not only wishes to forget what happened under communism, but is intent on recreating a glorious and largely fictitious history of that period. That means there will be no introspection, no metanoia, and no possibility of reform.

Page 3 of 3 1 2 3

The Byzantine Forum provides message boards for discussions focusing on Eastern Christianity (though discussions of other topics are welcome). The views expressed herein are those of the participants and may or may not reflect the teachings of the Byzantine Catholic or any other Church. The Byzantine Forum and the www.byzcath.org site exist to help build up the Church but are unofficial, have no connection with any Church entity, and should not be looked to as a source for official information for any Church. All posts become property of byzcath.org. Contents copyright - 1996-2020 (Forum 1998-2020). All rights reserved.
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.3