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#344008 - 02/20/10 04:46 PM Re: Preterp'ivyj Za Nas/Having Suffered the Passion hymn [Re: Ung-Certez]
sieglinde Offline
Member

Registered: 01/22/07
Posts: 142
Loc: west virginia
we sang it last night, in English. I enjoy singing it in Slavonic and hope we do so at least once in an upcoming week of the Great Fast.

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#344009 - 02/20/10 05:14 PM Re: Preterp'ivyj Za Nas/Having Suffered the Passion hymn [Re: ByzKat]
DMD Offline
Member

Registered: 05/01/09
Posts: 960
Loc: Upstate New York
Originally Posted By: ByzKat
Originally Posted By: sielos ilgesys
I'm amazed and a bit confused why anyone would want to repudiate this customary hymn text. How does singing it (with prostrations is even better) hurt anything?


I have not heard anyone repudiate this hymn text (except once in an exceptionally "Great Russian" church). What has happened is that the liturgical commission of the (Ruthenian) Metropolitan Archeparchy of Pittsburgh has recommended that it NOT be sung immediately after the reception of Holy Communion, since it is intensely penitential - and in our tradition, fasting / penitence / sorrow is not really consonant with the reception of our Lord's Body and Blood.

Some (here and elsewhere) have used this to argue that the church has entirely "forbidden" this practice - usually as part of broader discontent with recent changes in the service books. For example, the same liturgical commission recommended that only psalms or liturgical compositions, and not paraliturgical hymns or "concerts", be sung during Holy Communion, and some have claimed that as a result, "they have completely forbidden the singing of hymns in our churches." Not so; they are simply not to be sung as at a particular point in the service (and even that does not apply to hymns based on liturgical texts, such as T'ilo Christovo and Viruju Hospodi).

Now, a parallel: in our tradition, we do not customarily intone for the departed at the Divine Liturgy on Sunday - and so one COULD, in the same way, claim "the bishops are forbidding us to pray for the dead!" In some cases (for example, where weekly liturgies are not held), pastors will in fact intone for the departed on Sunday, and this is generally seem as a reasonable accomodation.

In the same way, some parishes which ONLY celebrate the Liturgy of Presanctified Gifts, and no other services, on weekdays in the Fast, may certainly sing Preterpivyj. This option is mentioned in the materials prepared for use with the new Presanctified books, but those materials recommend that Preterpivyj be sung BEFORE rather than after the Liturgy of the Presanctified Gifts, and paraliturgical Eucharistic or thanksgiving hymns be sung afterwards.

I have never seen any suggestion that this hymn, or other "hymns of the Passion", NOT be sung after Vespers, Sixth Hour, or devotional services during the Fast - and the service book used for Forgiveness Vespers at the cathedral in Pittsburgh included it in both English and Slavonic.

http://metropolitancantorinstitute.org/songs/Slavonic/Preterpivyj.html

Yours in Christ,
Jeff



That is consistent with the ACROD practice over the years although we do sing it after the conclusion of Presantified liturgy.

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#344012 - 02/20/10 07:10 PM Re: Preterp'ivyj Za Nas/Having Suffered the Passion hymn [Re: DMD]
Jason D Offline
Member

Registered: 01/10/10
Posts: 33
Loc: New Jersey
When I look at the mess the bishops and those people on the commissions made of the liturgy and the music I really do not have any confidence whatsoever that they know what they are doing or that what they say is sound theology.

They seem not to understand that our churches are empty because of them and what they have done.

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#344018 - 02/21/10 10:27 AM Re: Preterp'ivyj Za Nas/Having Suffered the Passion hymn [Re: Ung-Certez]
Deacon Robert Behrens Offline
Jessup B.C. Deacon
Member

Registered: 03/16/06
Posts: 1329
Loc: Jermyn, Pa.
Re: Passaic Eparchy, I think you are misinformed. We sing it in my parish, and in all of the area parishes, at the end of Lenten services. In our area, we have Sunday Lenten Vespers at area parishes, from week to week, and it is sung at these regional celebrations. It also also song at most, if not all, UGCC, OCA and ROCOR parishes in this area.

Dn. Robert

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#344019 - 02/21/10 11:19 AM Re: Preterp'ivyj Za Nas/Having Suffered the Passion hymn [Re: Deacon Robert Behrens]
Irish Melkite Online   content
Global Moderator
Member

Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 8894
Loc: Massachusetts
It having been established by the postings of several folk that the use of this hymn is not forbidden - end of discussion.

This subforum is not - and is not going to become - a child of the RDL forum. If you have issues regarding hymnography forbidden in the Byzantine Metropolia under changes enacted by the Metropolitan Council of Hierarchs, take them to the RDL forum.


Many years,

Neil
_________________________
"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."

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