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Bishop Sheen on What's My Line #344870 03/09/10 05:42 AM
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Katie g Offline OP
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My friend and I enjoy watching old clips of "What's My Line" on youtube and I happened across this clip of Bishop Fulton J. Sheen on the show. I just thought it was neat and something to share. I think what I enjoyed most, is the attitude of the other people on the show and in the audience towards him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prgvEA2D4sw&feature=related

-Katie

Re: Bishop Sheen on What's My Line [Re: Katie g] #344872 03/09/10 09:43 AM
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Irish Melkite Offline
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Katie,

Thanks for posting that, I haven't seen it in a long time. It was and remains a classic of an enjoyable time period in television history. As you noted, the reaction of both the panelists and audience were indicative of the respect in which Bishop Sheen was held.

Many years,

Neil


"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."
Re: Bishop Sheen on What's My Line [Re: Katie g] #344881 03/09/10 02:04 PM
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Fr David Straut Offline
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Very nice. It was good to see that at one time pious Roman Catholics reverenced the priesthood by kissing the hand of the bishop, just as Orthodox Christians do today with their own bishops and priests.

Fr David Straut

Re: Bishop Sheen on What's My Line [Re: Fr David Straut] #344883 03/09/10 02:05 PM
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Terry Bohannon Offline
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I hope more pick up that practice.

Re: Bishop Sheen on What's My Line [Re: Irish Melkite] #344884 03/09/10 02:16 PM
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Alice Offline
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Originally Posted by Irish Melkite
Katie,

Thanks for posting that, I haven't seen it in a long time. It was and remains a classic of an enjoyable time period in television history. As you noted, the reaction of both the panelists and audience were indicative of the respect in which Bishop Sheen was held.

Many years,

Neil


Yes, I agree, it was very nice, and the people were so much more pleasant then! It brought back my memories of watching tv as a little girl, and how nice tv was. There was absolutely no fear at all about leaving your children infront of the set.

You just sense how much nicer society was then by watching them in this clip... We have become so ugly (actions, words, preoccupations) disrespectful and uncivil as a society since... frown

A question...Archbishop Sheen was referred to as 'Your Excellency'...Is this the proper way to address an archbishop in the Roman Catholic tradition. I believe in the Eastern tradition it is 'Your Eminence'.

Re: Bishop Sheen on What's My Line [Re: Alice] #344888 03/09/10 03:17 PM
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Logos - Alexis Offline
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Fr. David,

Many Roman Catholics still reverence the hands of priests and bishops - but almost all of them attend the Traditional Mass. But they're out there. I did it one time to a black priest who only celebrates the Novus Ordo. He had no clue what was going on. So I've stopped for now. smile

Alice,

"Excellency" or "Grace" is used for bishops. "Grace" is more popular in Britain than it is here in the States. "Eminence" is for cardinals. (And "Your Reverence" for priests - but I think that went out the door about 150 years ago!). LOL.

Alexis

Re: Bishop Sheen on What's My Line [Re: Logos - Alexis] #344892 03/09/10 04:36 PM
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I was told to show reverence to the episcopacy by kissing bishop's ring, not hand.

I agree, kissing priests' hands is still popular among Traditional Catholics, also altar servers kiss priest's hands during the Mass. But not everywhere, it depends on parish.

Re: Bishop Sheen on What's My Line [Re: PeterPeter] #344899 03/09/10 09:05 PM
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aramis Offline
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Logos: Eminence has been used in some English speaking countries for Archbishops, as well.

Re: Bishop Sheen on What's My Line [Re: aramis] #344900 03/09/10 09:12 PM
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Peter,

Yes, as I understand it, for bishops one actually kisses the ring (same for the Pope). For priests, just the hand I think.

Aramis,

That's interesting. Like in Australia?

Re: Bishop Sheen on What's My Line [Re: Logos - Alexis] #344906 03/09/10 09:49 PM
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Fr Serge Keleher Offline
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"Excellency", let's face it, is a purely secular title (as in "His Excellency the Ambassador" or "His Excellency the Governor") and is quite inappropriate in ecclesiastical use.

Fr. Serge

Re: Bishop Sheen on What's My Line [Re: Logos - Alexis] #344908 03/09/10 09:59 PM
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Alexis: I'll have to look up where, but it's an archaism. (pre 1630, properly, tho' still used into the 1650's based upon various documents I've read). It also was used by some princes prior to the 1630 papal decree (which explicitly reprobates such use).

It's occasionally used in English for Orthodox archbishops, and for certain Tibetan Lamas.

Re: Bishop Sheen on What's My Line [Re: Alice] #345656 03/22/10 02:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Alice

A question...Archbishop Sheen was referred to as 'Your Excellency'...Is this the proper way to address an archbishop in the Roman Catholic tradition. I believe in the Eastern tradition it is 'Your Eminence'.


This was filmed when Archbishop Sheen was still the Auxiliary Bishop of New York. Therefore, "Your Excellency" was appropriate. Only later (co-incidentally) about the same color TV was finally popularized, did Pope Paul VI transfer the Servant of God to Rochester, NY and give him the titular Archbishopric of Newport, Wales. Then he would have been referred to as "Your Grace."

Re: Bishop Sheen on What's My Line [Re: Dr. Eric] #345658 03/22/10 03:07 AM
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Irish Melkite Offline
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Originally Posted by Dr. Eric
Originally Posted by Alice

A question...Archbishop Sheen was referred to as 'Your Excellency'...Is this the proper way to address an archbishop in the Roman Catholic tradition. I believe in the Eastern tradition it is 'Your Eminence'.


This was filmed when Archbishop Sheen was still the Auxiliary Bishop of New York. Therefore, "Your Excellency" was appropriate. Only later (co-incidentally) about the same color TV was finally popularized, did Pope Paul VI transfer the Servant of God to Rochester, NY and give him the titular Archbishopric of Newport, Wales. Then he would have been referred to as "Your Grace."


Before anyone says 'Your Grace' isn't used in the Latin Church in the US, Dr Eric is (I presume) indicating its appropriateness as the title for a bishop of a titular see in the UK (Newport in Wales). However, I would offer one correction - Archbishop Sheen was created Titular Bishop of Newport upon his retirement from the See of Rochester. A bishop of an extant canonical jurisdiction (e.g., Rochester) doesn't hold a titular title concomitantly.

Another point of trivia, I'm fairly certain that he was granted the title of Archbishop ad personam, as Newport was historically a diocese, not an archdiocese. That said, it might have been that 'Your Lordship' would be more appropriate than 'Your Grace', as it is the usage for archbishops in Commonwealth countries, I believe. (In truth, few would be worried about distinguishing forms of address for a titular bishop - that we converse about such here, without batting an eye, says something about us - not sure what, but I bet a mental health professional would have a field day with it biggrin - and with us crazy ).

Many years,

Neil

Last edited by Irish Melkite; 03/22/10 03:13 AM.

"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."
Re: Bishop Sheen on What's My Line [Re: Irish Melkite] #345851 03/26/10 01:26 AM
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Dr. Eric Offline
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Archbishops in the Latin Church (at least in English) are referred to as "Your Grace." That's why it would be appropriate to refer to Archbishop Sheen as "Your Grace" after the Titular Archbishopric but as "Your Excellency" when he was Auxiliary of New York City.

Re: Bishop Sheen on What's My Line [Re: Dr. Eric] #345867 03/26/10 07:33 AM
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Irish Melkite Offline
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Originally Posted by Dr. Eric
Archbishops in the Latin Church (at least in English) are referred to as "Your Grace." That's why it would be appropriate to refer to Archbishop Sheen as "Your Grace" after the Titular Archbishopric but as "Your Excellency" when he was Auxiliary of New York City.


The Official Catholic Directory cites the formal and recognized style of address used in US as Your Excellency for both Archbishops and Bishops of the Latin Church. That has been the case for many decades now and conforms with the usage dictated in all the modern style manuals on my bookshelf.

Contrary to what I posted above, however, the style in (most) Commonwealth nations is Your Grace for an Archbishop and My Lord for a Bishop.

Many years,

Neil


"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."
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