I'm on my spring break right now, and am visiting friends in NYC and D.C. Still in NYC at the moment. Yesterday for Mass, my friend and I, a fellow Roman Catholic, attended Divine Liturgy at St. George Ukrainian Catholic Church on 7th St. The 4:00 PM liturgy was in English. The temple is beautiful. A few things struck me as interesting, and I'd like to see what others think.

First of all, there was no incense used. I half-way expected this to be the case as I got the impression the "principal" Divine Liturgies at this church are the ones in the morning, all of which are in Ukrainian. How common is it to go without incense in a UGCC Divine Liturgy?

The liturgy took under an hour, with a fairly long sermon to boot. I'd say just over 50 minutes. But it was, indeed, all chanted (well, the parts that are supposed to be chanted).

However, the only person chanting was the cantor. I've also experienced a lack of vocal participation by the laity at the Greek church in my law school town...often the choir chants, and the people don't really join in. How common is this? In most other Eastern Catholic and Orthodox parishes I've been to, the people join in.

At the end of the liturgy, there was no veneration of the hand-cross held by the priest. There was, however, a short prayer by all, including the priest, in front of the venerational cross on the tetrapod since it was, after all, the Feast of the Veneration of the Cross. Full prostrations and all.

No antidoron at the end or anything like that (not surprising).

The priest seemed to pray all of his prayers audibly. He had a microphone attached, so when he was saying the prayers in a regular voice they were clearly heard by all. I know this is apparently an increasingly common practice in the Russian Orthodox church (due mostly to mics). Is this standard for UGCC parishes, too? Additionally, there was no deacon but the priest did take the deacon's response of "The doors! The doors!" which I found to be interesting, as I've never seen that done before.

My friend noted that it was very different than what she is used to (the standard Novus Ordo Mass), but that she liked it well enough and it grew on her as the liturgy went on.

Has anyone ever been to one of the main Ukrainian liturgies at this church? If so, how does it differ?

The signs on the door of the church also invited visitors to attend the 4:00 PM "Mass" (not liturgy) in English.

All in all, a pleasant and unique experience, but can't really say it had a "wow" factor to it, besides of course the most sublime worship of the Trinity and receiving Our Lord's Body and Blood!

Alexis

This is not the norm in Greek Orthodox churches here and abroad, but the laity will sometimes chime in for certain special feast day hymns like the 'Christ is Risen', 'Save oh God they people and bless thine inheritance', 'Eternal Memory', 'Axion Esti', etc.

Also, I have attended liturgies in Russian Orthodox churches both here and abroad and I have not heard the people join in.

NOW--sorry for taking this offtrack...back to your question and
awaiting our Greek Catholic friends who have visited or live in NYC to respond for you!!!

....Father Serge?!?

The Ruthenian parishes I've been to all had participation from the faithful, not just the choir/cantors.

The kissing of the hand cross is permitted routinely, but not done routinely.

Antedorian is seldom provided to the faithful, and usually is only provided when the hand cross is reverenced.

Some Ruthenian priests sing the whole of the canon except the secret prayers (during which the congregation is singing anyway; most who speak it use mics.

I've never seen a Ruthenian DL without incense. I know one day, one pastor ran out DURING the liturgy; he scraped the last bits into the censor for the final incensation of the gifts, and got almost nothing. The mail arrived that afternoon with the new boxes, well over a week overdue. (It was a holy day liturgy.) He'd been planning to go borrow some from a nearby Roman parish if it hadn't arrived, and he'd been rationing tightly already.

Likewise congregational singing is common in ACROD Orthodox parishes, which derived from the Ruthenian Rite.

Regarding the Liturgy described in the thread, I recall my father talking about how some of the UGCC parishes still did what was called 'Low Mass' or 'Little Mass' when he was a boy in the 1920's with a lot of skipped parts and read prayers and responses. Perhaps that was case in the parish where Logos-Alexis visited. Some UGCC parishes are very, very Eastern in their orientation, such as St. Elias in Brampton, Ontario.

I described much of the same in regards to "low mass" in my initial experiences in Buffalo in a previous thread.
http://www.byzcath.org/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/329080/My%20Experience%20with%20the%20Divine

I attended a weekday service at St. George a couple of years ago and it was as you described. I will also say that the BCC parish I attended for some time did have sort of a "low mass" on the weekdays that did not include incense.

This is also my experience in Ruthenian parishes, although in our parish and most others that I've attended, kissing the hand cross is standard and in our parish antidoron is distributed every Sunday. We occasionally have a Melkite priest as a substitute. When he is present, we kiss the gospel instead of the hand cross. Since we lack a choir, congregational singing is a must. We have a very good cantor, but his voice would be lonely without the rest of us. A Liturgy without incense would be very strange indeed. There have been a few times when I have been the only person present, other than the priest, and he still did the usual amount of incensing.

Only once have I been the only one present for a liturgy, and Fr. Steve incensed heavily as well.

On certain feasts, we also reverence the Gospel Book. Usually with annointing with oil. Father annoints, then we step to the side, reverence the gospel, step over again, reverence the festal icon, step over once more for antidorion, and once more for the special collection begging bowl. Those particular feasts, the simpler older gospel book is used on one side, and the current use one on the other.

usually, when we reverence the hand cross, we have antedorion, but not reverencing the icon of the day nor the gospel book.

For many years, until the current pastor, we had the children and parents come forward to stand close during the gospel, and the Gospel was reverenced by the servers and those come forward, before the sermon. I do miss that.

I have heard of this custom, but not seen it. It seems like a very good way to engage the children. Have you asked the current pastor about reinstating the practice?

I will say that this did not seem like a "low" Liturgy in any other sense than a lack of incense and the time it took to celebrate (like I said, about 55 minutes or less). But everything was chanted, and nothing was left out (from what I could see). The chanting was just pretty fast, and the cantor's Kyries would start right before the priest concluded his sentences.

The Little and Great Entrances were, however, abbreviated. The priest went through the deacons' doors and then straight back through the royal doors, without encircling the nave.

Alexis

He vehmently discontinued it as the first change in praxis as pastor.

That, and locking the handicap-accessible door during liturgy.

This is generally what our priest does on any day other than Sunday, particularly if attendance is low.

yikes!

I've seen this at every Ruthenian parish I've attended, with a bishop present at at least three (including at the then pro-cathedral).

hawk

No circling the "nave" is done in any ROCOR church I have seen; all Russian entrances I have seen are as you describe, the presence of the gifts being what makes the great entrance great.

UGCC churches over here just go from door to door. The Melkites do tend to go for bit of a walk into the nave.