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Hagia Sophia Question #345255 03/15/10 04:43 AM
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bkovacs Offline OP
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If both Eastern Orthodox and Catholics feel so much dispair about losing Hagia Sophia, even unto this day. Than why not build a replacement to Hagia Sophia a twin Hagia Sophia in another non Muslim land for the Ecumenical Patriarch. Since he will probably be the only Christian living in Istanbul in a few years time anyway. Maybe Greece would be a good place.

Re: Hagia Sophia Question [Re: bkovacs] #345264 03/15/10 06:40 AM
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bpbasilphx Offline
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Ever hear of the Avignon papacy, bkovacs?

Re: Hagia Sophia Question [Re: bpbasilphx] #345273 03/15/10 12:47 PM
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Garajotsi Offline
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Slava Isusu Khrestu

Turkey would be all to happy to have the Ecumenical Patriarch and the Patriarchate out of Turkey and somewhere else!

Interestingly, you can take out any Christian icons and artifacts of historical origin but if there is a hint that you have taken out a Turkish historical item ...then God help you!!!!

The Ecumenical Patriarchate would appear to be a thorn in the side of Turkey.

I believe that they are just waiting...in time, there will be no native born Greek Orthodox Turkish citizen who will asscend the ancient seat of St Andrew! Only time!!!!!!!!!!!

Unworthy and a sinner

Kolya

Re: Hagia Sophia Question [Re: Garajotsi] #345324 03/15/10 11:50 PM
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Logos - Alexis Offline
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As said as it would be to comprehend the necessity of such a day, I agree that perhaps somewhere like outside Athens a replica of Hagia Sophia could be built, though such an undertaking would cost an untold fortune in today's money and perhaps not be fiscally possible, even with financial backing of the State of Greece and other Orthodox (and Catholic?) countries.

Things like this don't come cheap, and it helps when you have an emperor in charge who can simply demand it! wink

Alexis

Re: Hagia Sophia Question [Re: Garajotsi] #345371 03/16/10 07:05 PM
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I am deeply concerned for the Christians in Turkey and the Holy Land, etc.., but I am not so concerned re: the pentarchy, and I personally struggle with the feeling that it is not terribly helpful anymore. Particularly as it seems like Moscow & Constantinople have a sort of "cold war" going on in America and elsewhere, as they try and consolidate their areas of influence and power. It is not terribly edifying.

Last edited by maxpercy00; 03/16/10 07:06 PM.
Re: Hagia Sophia Question [Re: maxpercy00] #345373 03/16/10 07:27 PM
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Ray S. Offline
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I always wondered about a swap. The Cathedral in Spain (was a Mosque) for the Hagia Sophia. Wouldn't that be a wonderful ecumenical event?

Re: Hagia Sophia Question [Re: bkovacs] #345377 03/16/10 08:52 PM
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Orthodox Pyrohy Offline
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Originally Posted by bkovacs
If both Eastern Orthodox and Catholics feel so much dispair about losing Hagia Sophia, even unto this day. Than why not build a replacement to Hagia Sophia a twin Hagia Sophia in another non Muslim land for the Ecumenical Patriarch. Since he will probably be the only Christian living in Istanbul in a few years time anyway. Maybe Greece would be a good place.


Christians exist in Turkey. I saw them on tv wink But kidding aside I've talked to more than one Turkish Christian in my life.
While we all lament the loss of the Agia Sophia we must remember that the faith isn't the bricks and mortar of a building regardless of that building's importance in the development of Near Eastern and Western Culture for the last 1500 years. Yes we would all love to carry icon banners in a festal procession in Agia Sophia. But I know a priest that once said that Orthodoxy is completed at the altar when we stand before the awesome Mysteries of Christ. That exists in Turkey. It always will exist in Turkey and throughout the world because Christ said the gates of Hades shall not prevail against His Church.

Re: Hagia Sophia Question [Re: Orthodox Pyrohy] #345396 03/17/10 01:33 AM
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As the abbot of one of the monasteries on Mount Athos said, Hagia Sophia is just a place and the Byzantine Empire is just a phase in history.

The real Hagia Sophia, the place where humans worship God and "do not know whether they're in heaven or on Earth" is the Church.

As for why they don't build another one, you do have to remember that the services that were conducted there (at least until the 4th crusade) were similar, but still in many ways different from those of today. Today's usage, for instance, derives from monastic use and is designed to be do-able in a fairly small space. Hagia Sophia's liturgy required lots of people and lots of time, procession, and ceremonies - in some eras it was the only place public worship was conducted in the entire city.

So, I'm not much convinced that another one is necessary. Besides, there is another (smaller) one in Thessalonica, and I don't believe that the "old" liturgy is conducted there anymore either.

Re: Hagia Sophia Question [Re: MarkosC] #345420 03/17/10 06:20 AM
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Cyril42 Offline
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There are numerous prophecies in both the Russian and Greek Church which speak of the return of The City to the Greeks and the return of Orthodoxy to Anatolia as well as a general flowering of Christianity throughout Europe and the near east following a period of great war and strife. Most recently the Elder Paisios of Mont Athos was adamant that some of his followers who are alive today would one day carry holy banners in procession as Constantinople was returned to the Orthodox. Mere dreams? This century of ours may tell otherwise. We shall see.

Re: Hagia Sophia Question [Re: Cyril42] #345423 03/17/10 06:24 AM
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DTBrown Offline
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Here's a new You Tube video that has some Greek chant set inside Hagia Sophia.

Anyone here understand the Greek?


Re: Hagia Sophia Question [Re: DTBrown] #345424 03/17/10 06:38 AM
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Brian Kerzetski Offline
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That greek chant is absolutely gorgeous (so is the church). I long for the day we can learn to do that in our church. For now I will have to enjoy the Melkites'.

Re: Hagia Sophia Question [Re: Cyril42] #345437 03/17/10 01:25 PM
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Alice Offline
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Originally Posted by Cyril42
There are numerous prophecies in both the Russian and Greek Church which speak of the return of The City to the Greeks and the return of Orthodoxy to Anatolia as well as a general flowering of Christianity throughout Europe and the near east following a period of great war and strife. Most recently the Elder Paisios of Mont Athos was adamant that some of his followers who are alive today would one day carry holy banners in procession as Constantinople was returned to the Orthodox. Mere dreams? This century of ours may tell otherwise. We shall see.


It is also held widely by prophecy that Russia will somehow be the catalyst for its return to Christianity. That doesn't sound far fetched, but would imply a great, great war...

Re: Hagia Sophia Question [Re: DTBrown] #345439 03/17/10 01:33 PM
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Alice Offline
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Originally Posted by DTBrown
Here's a new You Tube video that has some Greek chant set inside Hagia Sophia.

Anyone here understand the Greek?



It says that it is from a concert during Holy Week, so it is one of the Holy Week chants...

Re: Hagia Sophia Question [Re: Alice] #345442 03/17/10 01:56 PM
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As Stuart mentioned to me, and I agree, this concert looks as if it is computer imposed. I doubt very much that it would have been allowed by the Turkish government to be shot in the church.

Re: Hagia Sophia Question [Re: Alice] #345443 03/17/10 02:21 PM
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Epiphanius Offline
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Originally Posted by Alice
It is also held widely by prophecy that Russia will somehow be the catalyst for [Asia Minor's] return to Christianity. That doesn't sound far fetched, but would imply a great, great war...

Alice,

Are you suggesting that conversions will come as the result of military force? shocked


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