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Conception Abbey Revised Grail Psalter #305913 12/02/08 02:46 PM
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In it's December issue the Adoremus Bulletin gives a portion of Psalm 93 from the Conception Abbey Revised Grail Psalter, which was approved by the Latin Bishops at their November meeting (and now goes to the Holy See for final approval).

It is interesting to see how the monks have revised the original 1963 Grail. "Happy" becomes "blessed" (in verse 12) and that is a good sign. It is said that the changes were only made to what was incorrect, and that the final product is mostly the 1963 Grail with only the revisions to make the text a more literal translation of the Hebrew. It is in full conformance with Liturgiam Authenticam. I look forward to seeing the the entire Psalter when it it is available. I know from both the liturgical use of the Grail together with my own personal prayer that the 1963 Grail is easy to pray with and to sing. I pray that maybe someday we can get an equivalent of the LXX for use in all of our liturgical texts.

Here are the comparisons (I've added a few more than the original article):




Psalm 93:8-13 - Original Grail (1963)

8 Mark this, most senseless of people;
Fools, when will you understand?
9 Can he who made the ear, not hear?
Can he who formed the eye, not see?
10 Will he who trains nations, not punish
Will he who teaches men, not have knowledge?
11 (The Lord knows the thoughts of men.
He knows they are no more then a breath.)
12 Happy the man whom you teach, O Lord,
whom you train by means of your law;
13 to him you give peace in evil days
while the pit is being dug for the wicked.

Psalm 93:8-13 - Conception Abbey Revised Grail

8 Mark thís, you sénseless péople;
fóols, when wíll you understánd?
9 Can he who plánted the éar not héar?
Can he who fórmed the éye not sée?
10 Will he who tráins the nátions not púnish?
Will hé who teaches mán not have knówledge?
11 The LÓRD knows the pláns of mán.
He knóws they are no móre than a bréath.
12 Blessed the mán whom you díscipline, O LÓRD,
whom you tráin by méans of your láw;
13 to whóm you give péace in evil dáys,
while the pít is being dúg for the wícked.

Psalm 94:8-13 - RSV

[8] Understand, O dullest of the people!
Fools, when will you be wise?
[9] He who planted the ear, does he not hear?
He who formed the eye, does he not see?
[10] He who chastens the nations, does he not chastise?
He who teaches men knowledge,
[11] the LORD, knows the thoughts of man,
that they are but a breath.
[12] Blessed is the man whom thou dost chasten, O LORD,
and whom thou dost teach out of thy law
[13] to give him respite from days of trouble,
until a pit is dug for the wicked.

Psalm 93:8-13 - Revised NAB (2006) (Rejected)

8 Understand, you stupid people!
You fools, when will you be wise?
9 Does the one who shaped the ear not hear?
The one who formed the eye not see?
10 Does the one who guides nations not rebuke?
The one who teaches man not have knowledge?
11 The LORD does know the plans of men;
they are only puffs of air.
12 Happy the one whom you guide, LORD,
whom you teach by your instruction.
13 You give him rest from evil days,
while a pit is being dug for the wicked.`

Psalm 93:8-13 - LXX (ellopos.net)

8 Understand now, ye simple among the people;
and ye fools, at length be wise.
9 He that planted the ear, does he not hear
or he that formed the eye, does not he perceive?
10 He that chastises the heathen, shall not he punish,
[even] he that teaches man knowledge?
11 The Lord knows the thoughts of men,
that they are vain.
12 Blessed is the man whomsoever thou shalt chasten, O Lord,
and shalt teach him out of thy law;
13 to give him rest from evil days,
until a pit be digged for the sinful one.

Psalm 94:8-13 - KJV

8 Understand, ye brutish among the people:
and ye fools, when will ye be wise?
9 He that planted the ear, shall he not hear?
he that formed the eye, shall he not see?
10 He that chastiseth the heathen, shall not he correct?
he that teacheth man knowledge, shall not he know?
11 The LORD knoweth the thoughts of man,
that they are vanity.
12 Blessed is the man whom thou chastenest, O LORD,
and teachest him out of thy law;
13 That thou mayest give him rest from the days of adversity,
until the pit be digged for the wicked.


Re: Conception Abbey Revised Grail Psalter [Re: Administrator] #305915 12/02/08 03:17 PM
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Many years to Abbot Gregory and all of the monks of Conception. Brother Elias posts on this forum occasionally and I have been pleased to have been involved with celebration of the Divine Liturgy for the monks and seminarians for a number of years.

Re: Conception Abbey Revised Grail Psalter [Re: Administrator] #305942 12/02/08 11:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Administrator
I pray that maybe someday we can get an equivalent of the LXX for use in all of our liturgical texts.


We have it alreay in the Septuagint Psalter of Baron Jose DeVinck and Fr. Leonidas Contos publishes by Alleluia and Narthex Press. Why that translation was not been adopted, especially since it was already familiar due to its use in the Levkulic Presanctified book I will never understand. I believe this translation is mandatory for use in English GOA service books.

Fr. Deacon Lance


My cromulent posts embiggen this forum.
Re: Conception Abbey Revised Grail Psalter [Re: Fr. Deacon Lance] #305950 12/03/08 01:42 AM
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Father Deacon Lance,

I really don’t consider the ones you mention to be equivalent to the Grail, even though we have used Raya/DeVinck for many years and they all are LXX. If you look at Raya/DeVinck for Psalm 103 from Vespers you find: “Clothed in pomp and brilliance”. Grail has “Clothed in majesty and glory.” Holy Transfiguration (Boston) has “Confession and majesty hast Thou put on.” The ellopos.net site gives: “Who dost robe thyself with light as with a garment.” Brenton gives: “Thou hast clothed thyself with praise and honour.” The RSV gives: “Thou art clothed with honor and majesty.”

It is more a matter of getting the translation as literal as is possible and yet rendering it as elegantly as possible. “Clothed in pomp and brilliance” just isn’t the equivalent of “clothed in majesty and glory” even though they do say the same thing. [Ever hear someone do a reading of the KJV Psalms? Magnificent!]

I do agree that Psalms 50, 103 and 140 should probably been left alone. I used to have all three memorized from Raya. These past 15-20 years of using both Raya and Grail has left me wanting to go back and forth between the two translations while praying them. And now with the Melkites I’m finding mostly Raya again and my local ROCOR cathedral seems to use mostly HT.

Some of the earlier books (from Msgr. Levkulic and the “gray” Vespers book) did use Grail but once BDW was published those translations were used almost exclusively (probably because they were LXX).

I would love to see the monks that prepared this new Conception Abby Psalter publish an edition that is based on LXX. The differences are important but not huge. I think I will contact them and suggest it (and that they work with all interested Eastern Christians to produce it).

John

Re: Conception Abbey Revised Grail Psalter [Re: Administrator] #346756 04/15/10 05:46 PM
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The Conception Abbey revised Grail Psalter has been approved by the Vatican. If you go to the Conception Abbey website you can arrange to be notified when it is published. I imagine the publishers will move quickly on this.

Re: Conception Abbey Revised Grail Psalter [Re: CRW] #346763 04/15/10 06:50 PM
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Thanks for the update. It is also announced at their website: Recognitio Received From Rome, Revised Grail Psalter Approved.

Re: Conception Abbey Revised Grail Psalter [Re: Administrator] #346772 04/15/10 11:09 PM
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I don't think King David has to worry about anyone stealing his laurels as greatest poet in the Bible. Apparently, almost everyone who attempts a translation of the Psalms forgets immediately that these are indeed poems meant to be sung. It is not enough to be literal and accurate, it must also be beautiful. The old Grail and the revised Grail, and, of course, the NAB, are leaden--they do not sing. The KJV ought to be the standard by which all English renderings are judged, since the KJV as a whole remains a bedrock of English literature and is (or was) a foundational document of our culture. We, as Eastern Christians, should rely on the LXX where it differs from the Masoretic, but we should always aspire to the lofty lyricism of the Authorized Edition (which Douai-Rheims copied wholesale, and which, in its turn, stole generously from Tyndale, an unsung genius).

Next time someone tries, they should bring in somebody with experience translating poetry. Dr. Anthony Esolen of Providence College, who wrote an outstanding verse translation of Dante's Divine Comedy, once sent my daughter a brief explanation of his principles of translations. I sent it on to the Administrator, and if he has it somewhere, I would like him to post it back to me, because my daughter lost it when her hard drive died.

Re: Conception Abbey Revised Grail Psalter [Re: StuartK] #346781 04/16/10 12:06 AM
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I agree with most of Stuart's comments except for the part about the Old Grail (1963). I found it sang very well. It just was not overly accurate. Some of the prayers on the website use it, and I've actually had e-mails complaining about it!

For those interested in Elizabethan English I highly recommend the new "Slavic Orthodox Psalter" (Complied by David Michell James of Rye, New Hampshire, 2009, with the blessing of Bishop Jerome of Manhattan (ROCOR)). The translation of the Psalter is Coverdale (1535), modified to support the LXX. It is magnificent.

As far as the Revised Grail Psalter goes, I am a pragmatist. I have not had a chance to see the entire Psalter yet, but what I've seen is good. I am sure it is not perfect. But it will be the standard for 65 million Latin Catholics in America and many more millions worldwide (whether we like it or not). So I would not be afraid of making the necessary changes to support the LXX and using it.

I strongly support Stuart's comments about Dr. Anthony Esolen. He has reviewed both of the forthcoming study liturgicons (updates to the 1964 Chrysostom and the 1976 Basil to make the translations more faithful to the Slavonic), and I think his suggestions have helped raise the quality level from 'accurate and good' to 'accurate and elegant' (but certainly others will determine that!). A friend of mine (outside the Ruthenian Church) 'test-prayed' the priestly prayers unique to the Basil Liturgy in his celebrations on the Sundays of the Fast and said they 'sang to his soul' and were 'majestic'.

Stuart - check your e-mail. I sent the 'Principles of Translation".


Re: Conception Abbey Revised Grail Psalter [Re: Administrator] #357829 01/02/11 02:34 PM
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Per the Conception Abbey website The Revised Grail Psalter will be on line by Monday, Jan 3. They are now taking orders for the print version. I hope it comes out for Kindle.

Re: Conception Abbey Revised Grail Psalter [Re: Administrator] #357834 01/02/11 04:56 PM
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Here is a example of the revision, from the already published version in Africa...


Psalm 23 (22)

1 The LÓRD is my shépherd; *
there is nóthing I shall wánt.
2 Frésh and gréen are the pástures *
where he gíves me repóse.
Near réstful wáters he léads me; *
3 he revíves my sóul.

He guídes me alóng the right páth, *
for the sáke of his náme.
4 Though I should wálk in the válley of the shádow
of déath, ��
no évil would I féar, for you are wíth me. *
Your cróok and your stáff will give me cómfort.

5 You have prepáred a táble befóre me *
in the síght of my fóes.
My héad you have anóinted with óil; *
my cúp is overflówing.

6 Surely góodness and mércy shall fóllow me *
all the dáys of my lífe.
In the LÓRD’S own hóuse shall I dwéll *
for léngth of days unénding.


Re: Conception Abbey Revised Grail Psalter [Re: Administrator] #357852 01/11/11 05:47 PM
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Re: Conception Abbey Revised Grail Psalter [Re: Administrator] #357853 01/11/11 05:58 PM
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I'd be interesting in evaluations of the Revised Grail Psalter. I received the paperback version last week and have gone through it. [There are some inconsistencies, so expect a second edition.] I have not yet formed an opinion. Compare to the 1963 Grail it is much more accurate and theologically correct. Yet I'm not finding it compelling. That may be only because I am not used to it yet. Of course, it will have to be updated for the LXX if it is to be used in the Byzantine Liturgy.

For an LXX Psalter (which is our Byzantine Psalter) for those wanting a more modern English there is the one in the Orthodox Study Bible. And it is certainly possible to produce one using the RSV-2CE or D-R Psalter as a base text.

Re: Conception Abbey Revised Grail Psalter [Re: Administrator] #357854 01/11/11 06:18 PM
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One odd thing is that LORD is used for both Lord and YHWH.

There are many improvements over the original Grail. I pray the psalms out loud and I find it helpful when the lines of the psalter have a similar length and a similar rythmic structure. This is a feature of the Hebrew originals. While the new psalter is more accurate and more traditional it seems less poetic in certain ways. The alliteration and flow of sounds is not so smooth. But I think the big problem with the original Grail is that it emphasizes poetry over substance. The text has to take priority over cute word plays.

Re: Conception Abbey Revised Grail Psalter [Re: Administrator] #358216 01/18/11 12:59 PM
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Archimandrite Lazarus (Moore) published a beautiful LXX Psalter in English with Kathisma divisions and annotations. It was printed in India and, sadly, is out of print. I've recommended that SVP reprints it.

Re: Conception Abbey Revised Grail Psalter [Re: Administrator] #358331 01/20/11 01:03 AM
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The Psalter & Gospel from Archimandrite Lazarus are available here
(pdf (free) or printed)

http://stores.lulu.com/papoutsis1

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