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Patriarch Filaret considers unity with U.G.C.ATHOLIC CHURCH #347114 04/24/10 06:42 AM
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vladika Offline OP
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Patriarch Filaret has considered a option to unite with the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church,since the new election of the President of Ukraine the M.P. is making the K.P. many problems.
Now Filaret is not getting the backing he had in the last administration.One must think if this is even possible to unite, this is a last minute move that Filaret is trying to make to save his K.P.
To me this would only be a Blessing and His Holiness Husar should consider taking now Orthodox clergy from America who want to join the U.G.C.C. Many Orthodox clergy in America would like to start the process as soon as possible.The only way that there is a chance for One United Ukrainian Church would be from Unity.The Clergy wanting to leave the K.P. AS WELL AS THE U.A.O.C. include 3 Bishops and several clergy from America.

Re: Patriarch Filaret considers unity with U.G.C.ATHOLIC CHURCH [Re: vladika] #347116 04/24/10 09:53 AM
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Irish Melkite Offline
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Vladika,

Please provide a news link for the assertion that Patriarch Filaret is considering such a move. Thank you.

Many years,

Neil


"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."
Re: Patriarch Filaret considers unity with U.G.C.ATHOLIC CHURCH [Re: Irish Melkite] #347117 04/24/10 12:25 PM
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vladika Offline OP
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Filaret and union possible with U.G.C.C.

http://www.ukrinform.ua/ukr/order/?id=885861


IT is also listed on RISU.

Re: Patriarch Filaret considers unity with U.G.C.ATHOLIC CHURCH [Re: vladika] #347120 04/24/10 01:36 PM
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Epiphanius Offline
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Originally Posted by vladika
Patriarch Filaret has considered a option to unite with the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church, since the new election of the President of Ukraine the M.P. is making the K.P. many problems.

Blahoslovy vladyko!

I am confident that HB Lubomyr will exercise due prudence in this matter. There are many factors that need to be considered, and certainly a snub to the MP like this would not seem to serve the cause of true unity.


Originally Posted by vladika
To me this would only be a Blessing and His Holiness Husar should consider taking now Orthodox clergy from America who want to join the U.G.C.C. Many Orthodox clergy in America would like to start the process as soon as possible ... The Clergy wanting to leave the K.P. AS WELL AS THE U.A.O.C. include 3 Bishops and several clergy from America.

A united Ukrainian Church would certainly be a blessing, but it doesn't seem to me that this would be the way to achieve that (thank God I'm not the one to make this decision!). A lot of Ukrainians believe in the Orthodox Church as a matter of faith, and I don't think it's likely they would wish to become Catholic just to avoid being re-united with the MP. A fragmentary "reunion" might just serve to further polarize the division between the Catholic and Orthodox churches.

However, this does indeed appear to be an opportunity for our people to get together and have some serious dialogue, seeking truth for its own sake rather than promoting a specific agenda, and that can only be a good thing. grin

I pray that our Risen Lord will guide this situation to a happy conclusion.


Peace,
Deacon Richard

Re: Patriarch Filaret considers unity with U.G.C.ATHOLIC CHURCH [Re: Irish Melkite] #347123 04/24/10 01:50 PM
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vladika Offline OP
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VERY WELL SAID! that is why the O.C.A. I feel will be the example to us all that in order for Orthodoxy to grow it must be open to all using Ukrainian on the church sign keeps many Americans away thinking that we are only for Ukrainians I have even been told by people that they thought they had to speak Ukrainian to even enter our church. lol not funny but very true!

Re: Patriarch Filaret considers unity with U.G.C.ATHOLIC CHURCH [Re: vladika] #347158 04/25/10 01:30 AM
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If Their Beattitudes Lubomyr and Filaret even go so far as to form a copastoral agreement providing for cross-reception of all sacraments except ordination (such agreements exist between the Armenian Churches), and cross recognition of ordination, that would be huge. And it's not something that either has expressed hostility to.

I doubt we'll see corporate reunion.

But in either case, the KP is isolated from much of Orthodoxy by being out of communion with both the sees of Moskva and Byzantium.

Re: Patriarch Filaret considers unity with U.G.C.ATHOLIC CHURCH [Re: aramis] #347167 04/25/10 12:36 PM
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This is not going to happen. It would be regarded as a hostile act by world Orthodoxy (despite the non-canonical status of the KP in the eyes of most Orthodox) and is not likely to receive the Vatican's blessing. Such action would torpedo Orthodox/Catholic dialouge and jettison decades of effort on both sides.

Re: Patriarch Filaret considers unity with U.G.C.ATHOLIC CHURCH [Re: DMD] #347170 04/25/10 12:53 PM
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Interesting. In a way not surprising as both the UGCC and the KP appeal to Ukrainian separatism/nationalism against Russia. I am surprised a former Russian Orthodox metropolitan of Kiev (Filaret, playing the nationalist card since Ukrainian independence) and his church would want to make such a move. If it's true it seems the KP have given up on trying to be accepted by the Orthodox.

Met. Lubomyr is probably rightly suspicious.

Illogical but understandable: although the KP aren't Orthodox, strictly speaking (a parasynagogue if I'm using that term correctly: out of communion but part of the family), and seem to be asking to become Greek Catholics, bringing the KP into the UGCC would torpedo ecumenism as it would start more Russian accusations of Greek Catholic proselytism.

But if the KP are honest, Roman Catholic ecclesiology (one true church like Orthodoxy) would say to accept them... but, as Fr Serge says, for ecumenism's sake, as quietly as possible.

Re: Patriarch Filaret considers unity with U.G.C.ATHOLIC CHURCH [Re: The young fogey] #347177 04/25/10 08:33 PM
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Fr Serge Keleher Offline
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Quote
as Fr Serge says, for ecumenism's sake, as quietly as possible.


I don't recognize this quote - can someone enlighten me?

As to whether this will or won't happen, I don't have a crystal ball. But it would not be so easy for Pope Benedict to refuse, what with the Anglican iron in the fire. In public, Moscow would protest loudly, but since this would solve a problem for them, they might not be particularly unhappy about it.

I note that Philaret is 80 years of age, and Lubomyr is not much younger, as well as nearly blind. That raises the possibility that they might both retire, and a joint synod could elect one new Patriarch. This could be quite interesting.

Again, I myself don't know what is actually going on - or if anything is actually going on. But the situation is probably worth watching.

Fr. Serge

Re: Patriarch Filaret considers unity with U.G.C.ATHOLIC CHURCH [Re: Fr Serge Keleher] #347186 04/25/10 11:31 PM
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It's not verbatim but 10 years ago I understood you to say that of course Rome accepts converts from the Orthodox but, emphasis yours, quietly. I agree!

Re: Patriarch Filaret considers unity with U.G.C.ATHOLIC CHURCH [Re: The young fogey] #347195 04/26/10 07:00 AM
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I hope that I may be pardoned for forgetting an off-the-cuff comment of ten years ago. I would have been contrasting such quiet with the ballyhoo sometimes made when a Catholic becomes Orthodox.

Fr. Serge

Re: Patriarch Filaret considers unity with U.G.C.ATHOLIC CHURCH [Re: The young fogey] #347207 04/26/10 06:00 PM
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Originally Posted by The young fogey
Interesting. In a way not surprising as both the UGCC and the KP appeal to Ukrainian separatism/nationalism against Russia.


Khrystos Voskres everyone! My first post.

I think it could be said with even more force that the Russian Orthodox Church appeals to Russian nationalism against Ukraine, to point out the obverse of what you have posted above young fogey. It is a two-way street and, as Patriarch Filaret has pointed out, in his opinion, the Moscow Patriarch does not even recognize "Ukrainians" as a nation but as "little Russians" or "malorossy" in the words of the Patriarch of Moscow's public relations executive.

First post, so if my etiquette is wrong, please correct. blush

In Christ,

Vladzyunyu

Re: Patriarch Filaret considers unity with U.G.C.ATHOLIC CHURCH [Re: Vladzyunyu] #347235 04/27/10 12:29 PM
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Vladzyunyu:
Russia for centuries has been poking its nose into Ukraine's business. It wants Ukraine's rich heritage, resources and religion for its own.
Russia just doesn't get it - Ukraine will always be Ukraine.
Pavloosh

Re: Patriarch Filaret considers unity with U.G.C.ATHOLIC CHURCH [Re: Pavloosh] #347268 04/27/10 08:54 PM
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Why do you stand like Cain? For that he who is jealous of his brother, and has him in hatred, is bound by the guilt of homicide, the Apostle John declares in his epistle, saying, "Whosoever hates his brother is a murderer; and you know that no murderer has life abiding in him." And again: "He that says he is in the light, and hates his brother, is in darkness even until now, and walks in darkness, and knows not whither he goes, because that darkness has blinded his eyes." 1 John 2:9-11 Whosoever hates, says he, his brother, walks in darkness, and knows not whither he goes. For he goes unconsciously to Gehenna, in ignorance and blindness; he is hurrying into punishment, departing, that is, from the light of Christ, who warns and says, "I am the light of the world. He that follows me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life." John 8:12 But he follows Christ who stands in His precepts, who walks in the way of His teaching, who follows His footsteps and His ways, who imitates that which Christ both did and taught; in accordance with what Peter also exhorts and warns, saying, "Christ suffered for us, leaving you an example that you should follow His steps." 1 Peter 2:21

St Cyprian of Cathage

Alexandr

Re: Patriarch Filaret considers unity with U.G.C.ATHOLIC CHURCH [Re: Slavipodvizhnik] #347271 04/27/10 09:51 PM
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Why do Russians cry foul when Ukrainians ask to be left alone?

Fr. Deacon Lance


My cromulent posts embiggen this forum.
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