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Episcopal Church ordains lesbian bishop #348100
05/15/10 08:07 PM
05/15/10 08:07 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,896
USA
Alice Offline OP
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Alice  Offline OP
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US Church ordains lesbian bishop Mary Glasspool

Mary Glasspool has been with her partner since 1988
The US Episcopal Church has ordained an openly lesbian bishop in a move likely to increase the turmoil in the Anglican Communion.

Saturday's ordination came despite warnings from the Archbishop of Canterbury that it would deepen an already bitter dispute on sexuality.

Mary Glasspool, 56, became an assistant bishop at a ceremony attended by 3,000 people in Long Beach, California.

Gene Robinson became the first openly gay US bishop in November 2003.

BBC religious affairs correspondent Robert Pigott says that since then the Anglican Communion has been on course for a permanent split.

'Snub'

Mary Glasspool was ordained with another woman bishop, Rev Canon Diane Jardine Bruce.

Both were elected last December and become the first two women bishops in the Diocese of Los Angeles's 114-year history.

Church spokesman Bob Williams told Associated Press that those attending burst into applause after the ordination.

The election of Mary Glasspool - who has been with her partner Becki for 22 years - represented a snub by the liberal Episcopal Church to other Anglican Churches around the world, our correspondent says.

Archbishop of Canterbury Rowan Williams had urged the American Church not to proceed with the ordination, warning that it would further alienate traditionalists who believe active homosexuality to be a sin.

Our correspondent says the latest ordination is likely to accelerate the gradual marginalisation of the Episcopal Church within a two-tier Communion and increase tensions between Anglicans elsewhere.

Gene Robinson was elected as the first openly US gay bishop in November 2003 in New Hampshire.

The Episcopal Church at first agreed to suspend the creation of gay bishops but reversed that decision last July.

www.bbcnews.com




Re: Episcopal Church ordains lesbian bishop [Re: Alice] #348104
05/15/10 10:31 PM
05/15/10 10:31 PM
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,251
PA
Thomas the Seeker Offline
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This will accelerate the return of Traditional Anglicans to Rome through the Pastoral Provision.

I also look for strengthening of the conservative movements within the Anglican Communion, such as the Reformed Episcopal Church and the Anglican Mission in the Americas.

Re: Episcopal Church ordains lesbian bishop [Re: Thomas the Seeker] #348111
05/16/10 08:04 AM
05/16/10 08:04 AM
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Posts: 1,707
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The young fogey Offline
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I defend all religions' rights to govern themselves and to their property. The Episcopalians have integrity/are being internally consistent.

What strikes me though is the passive-aggressive way they're changing doctrine on this. It would make more sense to me to have their General Convention approve homosexuality rather than play games based on who you promote.

Many 'traditional Anglicans' are Protestants so they believe in a fallible church (like their liberal opponents among the Episcopalians) and that Rome is unbiblical etc. so they won't convert.

Oh, yes, little conservative breakaway churches both recent (the Anglican Church in North America - not actually Anglican as the Episcopalians are America's official Anglican franchise) and of long standing (the Reformed Episcopal Church which I think is now part of ACNA) will see a small uptick.

Re: Episcopal Church ordains lesbian bishop [Re: The young fogey] #348112
05/16/10 08:59 AM
05/16/10 08:59 AM
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Posts: 4,678
Georgia
Logos - Alexis Offline
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To be honest, every time one of these horror stories comes out of the Anglican Communion, the constant refrain is "it's gonna make for a huge rupture!"...but the truth is, it almost never does.

Sure, some small groups break away Romeward. And sometimes prominent bishops or priests choose to convert.

But by and large, I think even the people who consider themselves "traditional Anglicans" or "Anglo-Catholic" and who are still within the Anglican Communion just don't care quite enough to actually leave.

Really all of modern-day Anglicanism, from the liberals who want lesbian bishops to the "traditionalists" who constantly threaten but rarely take action, is a complete conundrum to me. I find myself less and less inclined to suffer hearing anything about them at all.

Even the most basic tenets of Christian belief have been so raped and violated in that "ecclesial community" that it's hard to hear any news coming from them without reflexively cringing.

Alexis

Last edited by Logos - Alexis; 05/16/10 08:59 AM.
Re: Episcopal Church ordains lesbian bishop [Re: Logos - Alexis] #348114
05/16/10 09:22 AM
05/16/10 09:22 AM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 7,309
Falls Church, VA
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StuartK Offline
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Quote
To be honest, every time one of these horror stories comes out of the Anglican Communion, the constant refrain is "it's gonna make for a huge rupture!"...but the truth is, it almost never does.


Truth is, there aren't enough Episcopalians left to make a huge anything. The disintegration of the Episcopal Church proceeds at a fairly constant rate along several distinct tracks, which events such as the ordination of the first practicing lesbian bishop serving as nothing more than punctuation marks.

Here in Virginia, the largest and one of the wealthiest dioceses in the Episcopal Church, more than a dozen parishes, including six of the largest, richest and most historically significant (e.g., Falls Church parish and Truro parish) have bolted from TEC and been placed under the pastoral care of an African missionary diocese. The Diocese of Virginia is suing to hold onto the ecclesiastical properties, but thanks to an obscure Virginia law dating to Reconstruction, so far the "dissidents" (but how can they be dissidents when they outnumber the "loyal"?) have won every court case.

The diocese is well on its way to bankrupting itself, and even if, in the end, it wins, it will lose, since the membership of these parishes will simply move elsewhere, leaving the diocese with a bunch of white elephants it can neither maintain nor sell (all of disputed churches being on the historic preservation register). It's not like there are tons of Episcopalian missions opening everywhere and looking for places to worship.

As for TAC and ACC and the other Anglo-Catholics, they bolted the Episcopalian ship years ago. Most of their parishes are microscopic, and the various groups are too small individually to form a critical mass unless they join together. But they have a variety of disagreements on obscure points of theology and ecclesiology that keep them apart (or maybe its just the big fish/small pond syndrome), so it is unlikely either that these groups will combine to challenge the Episcopal church or move en masse to the Catholic Church. The Episcopalian mainline will continue to wither slowly, the end delayed only slightly be the small but fairly constant influx of disgruntled Catholics, most of whom have marital irregularities.

This is how their church shall end,
This is how their church shall end,
This is how their church shall end:
Not with a bang, but with a whimper

Re: Episcopal Church ordains lesbian bishop [Re: StuartK] #348130
05/16/10 09:56 PM
05/16/10 09:56 PM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,876
Western Australia
Pavel Ivanovich Offline
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I agree with Stuart. We wait for the mass exodus and it never happens, no matter what goes on in the Angligan Church. The break away groups also took their child sex abuse allegation with them here in Australia.

cool

Re: Episcopal Church ordains lesbian bishop [Re: Pavel Ivanovich] #348140
05/17/10 02:56 AM
05/17/10 02:56 AM
Joined: Apr 2009
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Eagle River, AK, US
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aramis Offline
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The Anglicans are in an odd place... they have a strong dogmatic constitution that they keep subtracting from, a diverse set of ritual praxises (sp? Is that the correct plural, even?) ranging from "Looks like 1950's roman in English" through nearly non-sacramental "full-gospel" approaches...

It's not surprising they are disintegrating.

I've seen some inquiring at St. Nicholas. We've got one attending regularly, tho' his wife is Roman. The ones I've met coming to the Catholic church are in doing so because they believe the Anglican Church has become unbiblical due to women's ordination and/or the acceptance of openly homosexual clergy of both genders. Those same folk are unwilling to go Lutheran for the exact same reasons...

The thing is, the Lutherans are having the same issues as the Anglicans, but because of their synodal system, it's been less divisive so far...

The potential for the Catholics to attract Anglicans by the new system is great... but it needs the initial burst of clergy into the ordinariates...

And a similar system for Lutherans would probably be pretty darned effective as well. (I know of a Lutheran parish that, if able to keep the basic pattern of the LCW adjusted minimally to bring it in line, would have become Catholic right off... three times in 8 years, they voted to do so! Ad Orientam LCW mass... Sadly, the AB had to say no, because of their wishing to retain a basically Lutheran Mass.)


Re: Episcopal Church ordains lesbian bishop [Re: aramis] #348144
05/17/10 05:23 AM
05/17/10 05:23 AM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,876
Western Australia
Pavel Ivanovich Offline
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If they come to the Catholic Church it has to be the faith of that Church that attracts them. Otherwise they will stay out at sea and just ride out the latest storm as Protestants awaiting the next crisis.

cool

Re: Episcopal Church ordains lesbian bishop [Re: Pavel Ivanovich] #348146
05/17/10 05:52 AM
05/17/10 05:52 AM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,564
Dublin
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Fr Serge Keleher Offline
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If I am not mistaken, the first such "bishopess" in the USA was Barbara Harris.

Fr. Serge

Re: Episcopal Church ordains lesbian bishop [Re: Pavel Ivanovich] #348156
05/17/10 02:03 PM
05/17/10 02:03 PM
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 700
Eagle River, AK, US
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aramis Offline
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Originally Posted by Pavel Ivanovich
If they come to the Catholic Church it has to be the faith of that Church that attracts them. Otherwise they will stay out at sea and just ride out the latest storm as Protestants awaiting the next crisis.


Their children, however, would be being indoctrinated with the use of the CCC, and thus be more orthodox than they in many cases.

Not unlike many of the WRO...

Re: Episcopal Church ordains lesbian bishop [Re: aramis] #348175
05/18/10 07:30 AM
05/18/10 07:30 AM
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Falls Church, VA
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StuartK Offline
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I'm sorry, Aramis, but my guess is exposure to the religious education programs in most Latin dioceses will definitely make the children of Anglo-Catholics a lot less orthodox than their parents. That's one of the reasons so many Latin bishops have not been very accommodating to Anglo-Catholic parishes desiring admission under the Anglican Use Dispensation--they tend to be more Catholic than those born into the Church, and take doctrine seriously.

Re: Episcopal Church ordains lesbian bishop [Re: StuartK] #348190
05/18/10 12:58 PM
05/18/10 12:58 PM
Joined: Apr 2009
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Eagle River, AK, US
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aramis Offline
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But they won't be exposed to that. That's the point of the ordinariate system: they will be separate from the local dioceses.

Separate in praxis and hierarchy from the Roman bishops, but still nominally of the Roman Rite, but of the Anglican Recension.

Re: Episcopal Church ordains lesbian bishop [Re: aramis] #348192
05/18/10 05:38 PM
05/18/10 05:38 PM
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Falls Church, VA
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StuartK Offline
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I sincerely doubt that the ordinariates will attract more than a handful of traditional Anglicans and Anglo-Catholics, and I sincerely doubt that the system will work as well as some people seem to think. Just as the bishops were able to impede the indult for the Tridentine Mass (and still make it difficult to find one today), so they will manage to impede the ordinariates, which depend upon the local diocese for facilities and other logistic support.

Re: Episcopal Church ordains lesbian bishop [Re: StuartK] #348206
05/19/10 01:25 PM
05/19/10 01:25 PM
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,125
Florida
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Epiphanius Offline
Za myr z'wysot ...
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Za myr z'wysot ...
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Originally Posted by StuartK
I sincerely doubt that the ordinariates will attract more than a handful of traditional Anglicans and Anglo-Catholics ...

Stuart,

The first wave of this latest movement will certainly be an experiment--something attempted only by the bold and reckless--or by the desperate. The success of this first wave will determine whether the second and subsequent waves will ever happen.

The fact that these are personal ordinariates, however, might be what makes the difference. Pope Benedict appears to be taking this matter out of the hands of the local bishops to some extent, aware of how things went with the "Pastoral Provision" some 20 years ago.

It can be good to have a "healthy skepticism" about matters like this, being careful to evaluate the issues involved when something *sounds* like good news and avoiding the tempation to get naively optimistic as long as the outcome is still uncertain. However, excessive skepticism can bring its own problems ... cool


Peace,
Deacon Richard

Re: Episcopal Church ordains lesbian bishop [Re: Epiphanius] #348207
05/19/10 03:35 PM
05/19/10 03:35 PM
Joined: Nov 2001
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Falls Church, VA
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StuartK Offline
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Well, in the United States, TAA has, at most, 2500 members. A lot of my friends and acquaintances either are or were members, and they tell me not very many are interested in becoming Roman Catholics, ordinariates or not. As to whether the bishops will help or hinder, let's just say they never fail to live down to my expectations.

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