I've been to Orthodox and Melkite Catholic churches, and they have antidoron during or after liturgy, even after the Pre-sanctified liturgy. Why doesn't the Ruthenian Catholic Church have antidoron during or after liturgy? Is this another latinization or something unique to my local parish?

The antidoron is distributed at the end of every Divine Liturgy @ St. Basil the Great parish in Irving (Dallas area); and we're a parish of the Archeparchy of Pittsburgh.

Failing to distribute it might indicate a latinization - maybe.

What does "antidoron" mean in Greek? Let's get a good translation.

Ray

Literally:

anti: against, instead of. link
dōron: gift. link i.e here meaning the eucharist

Classical usage: return-gift link

It is not in the RDL liturgicon ( link, and link see pdf) but can be done after the liturgy I would presume. It is in the Recension Služebnik, p 281, after the ambon prayer, and is there "covered" by the singing of Psalm 33. It is in the 1965-now-banned liturgicon, p 45. The Ordo instructs that the distribution may take place after the Dismissal where this is the custom: Latin, English, §144-145.

So in Greek "antidoron" means 'something taken instead of the gift'. Given for those who cannot participate in communion for some reason.

In Arabic, we call it "qurbaan" or a piece of it in your hand is called "qurbaanah" (pronounced in the colloquial: [urba:na]. This means 'offering'; because the bread comes from that which was offered.

I don't know how many Ruthenian parishes have fallen prey to the pre-cut phenomenon, but that would obviously contribute to the absence of antidoron after the liturgy.

We also distribute the antidoron after every Liturgy at St. Philip the Apostle in Sacramento, and have for as long as I can remember. I believe it is also distributed at St. Basil the Great Church in Los Gatos.

Maybe someone can correct me me if I'm wrong, but isn't Mirovanje our Ruthenian tradition, rather than antidoron. If we were to distribute antidoron weekly it seems to me it would destroy our tradition of mirovanje and dilute the celebration of major Feastdays.

Should we surrender our authentic Ruthenian tradition to copy another Church's tradition? If we do so, aren't we helenizing in place of latinizing?

Fr Deacon Paul

I always loved the Mirovanje of our Ruthenian tradition, it is such a blessing. Yet at the same time I love the Antidoron of the Melkite tradition. The reason being is it serves several purposes.

#1 is most important, the remaining bread after the Lamb is taken out, is then cut up for this purpose. After venerating the cross at the end of the Divine Liturgy, it is given. By consuming the blessed bread, it takes any particles of the Eucharist remaining in the mouth into the body. So it more than protects the Eucharist.

It seems to me, that some do this with wine (don't know the name of it) after veneration of the cross or icon at the end of the Divine Liturgy.

#2 it allows everyone present that is Christian to share bread with the community.

Y'all can tell I was raised Southern Baptist. I don't think I will ever get all these words straightened out in my vocabulary.

Mikita mentions antidoron in his Typikon (1901). In a footnote on Proskomedia, he describes the older use of five prosfori, then says that only one loaf is now used for the Lamb and the particles, "and the remains are distributed as 'Antidor.'" He also mentions the distribution of the antidoron at "Blessed be the name of the Lord" (Psalm 33 is not mentioned), and even says that antidoron is in remembrance of the Agape meal.

So it does seem that antidoron was known in Subcarpathian Rus, at least at the turn of the 20th century.

Dn. David

The distribution of antidoron is in the Ruthenian Recension (Rome, 1941) as I have referenced in a prior post and to the extent that one accepts those rites as Ruthenian then it is within "our authentic Ruthenian tradition." There antidoron is a practical way of using up the bread from the proskomedia that is not used for the eucharist.

Mirovanje seems more related to the artoklasia service of vespers (major feasts) that is then affixed to the subsequent celebration of the Divine Liturgy. Isn't the same blessing said as at vespers?

As to:

There is such irony in this observation, but it belongs in the RDL forum and I may post it there for discussion.

For what it is worth, I have never been to Liturgy at the Russian Greek Catholic parish in Denver, Colorado and not seen the practice of the antidoron (with warm wine) tradition.

Rybak, my brother,

Just for clarity (as I read this three times before I caught your point) - you are saying that the antidoron has been distributed with the warm wine on every occasion that you have worshipped at Ss Cyril & Methodius Russian Mission in Denver. Am I right?

Many years,

Neil

Fr. Deacon Paul, Please help me, if it's not part of the Ruthenian tradition, what is to be done with the remaining prosphora?

Since, in most Ruthenian parishes, when the deacon intones, "Approach", it's come one, come all, there usually aren't many prosphora left-assuming that the celebrant actually bothered to go through the full Proskomide. Also, not every parish that does celebrate the full Proskomide uses five small loaves. Some follow the Greek practice, and use a single large loaf, the symbolic value of which ought to be obvious.

Neil,

Yes, it is offered after every single Divine Liturgy in Denver. My apologies if my language was unclear.

Rybak.

Thank you for your responses. My comments were to broaden the discussion being respectful of the practices of our past (which are not latinizations, but established Ruthenian traditions.)

In answer to Job: Isn't it realistic that the phospora and its seal be made so that there is little leftover at the prothesis?

Backing up a bit, as defined in the glossary of Ordo Celebrationis antidoron is "portions of the prophora which remain on the Prothesis Table after the Lamb and other particles have been cut and set on the diskarion. Usually the priest distributes the Antidoron to the faithful at the end of the Divine Liturgy."


According to the practice set forth in Ordo (when five loaves are used only the seal portion of the first loaf is placed the discos; for the second loaf only one particle (in commemoration of the Theotokos) is used; the third loaf offers only 9 particles; the fourth and fifth loaves offer as many particles as the priest chooses. The remaining portions of the five loaves are set aside and not even blessed.
Bear with my tongue-in-cheek comment; the married clergy's family could use the remaining phosphora for cooking.

Keeping in mind that the antidoron is not explicitly blessed, methinks that our tradition of BLESSED bread with annointing (Mirovanje) is a more blessed practice.

Stubborn Rusyn that I am,
Fr Deacon Paul

(For non-Ruthenian Churches which practice the honorable Antidoron tradition, please take no offense.)

One important additional note....Ordo (p31) states, "It is not absolutely necessary that the Eucharistic bread be baked on the very day on which the Sacrifice is offered. The same loaf may be kept for several days and even be used for several Liturgies as long as all the ceremonies of the Prothesis are performed on the loaf, or on part of the loaf, by cutting the bread and extracting the Lamb and the particles as prescribed. Nor is it always necessary to use five separate phosphoras, since the lamb and all the particles may be extracted from one and the same loaf."

There are a small number of Ruthenian parishes which celebrate the Antidoron in the traditional form. Antidoron is common across all Byzantine Churches, is a correct part of the Ruthenian recension, and should be restored.

Mirovanije, the festal anointing celebrated after Divine Liturgies on holy days (and often transferred to the following Sunday), is a pastoral transference of the service of blessing of five breads, wheat, wine and oil (litija or artoklasia).

Litija, the blessing of the bread, wheat, wine and oil properly takes place at the end of Great Vespers (after the troparion). The faithful are then anointed and receive the blessed bread and wine after the Gospel of Matins. The five loaves symbolize the five loaves that the Savior blessed to feed the five thousand, with the larger symbolism of the service being the common meal of the agape feast.

It appears that the transference of this blessing service from the Vespers and Matins to the end of the Divine Liturgy can be traced to the time of the dropping of Vespers and Matins in most parishes.

O Lord Jesus Christ our God, Who blessed the five loaves and fed the five thousand: Bless + also these loaves, this wheat, wine and oil; multiply them in this city (town, holy monastery) and in all Your world, and sanctify the faithful who partake of them. For it is You, O Christ God, Who bless and sanctify all things, and we send up glory to You, together with Your Father Who is without beginning, and Your all-holy, good, and live-giving Spirit, now and ever and to the ages of ages. Amen.

Just to be clear, there is no glossary in the Ordo though there is one in the Keleher & Figel translation, p 99, as noted:


This opinion takes way too narrow a view of what is blessed and what a blessing is.

Once again, Mirovanije is a fine practice, but it should not be seen in this conflicted way relative to antidoron. The antidoron is certainly "BLESSED bread."

This is from §98 of the Ordo but does not in anyway imply that there should not be sufficient bread for antidoron.

If I might highlight what Father Deacon Anthony has posted, the "setting aside" of the five loaves of the prosphora is already a blessing, and all five loaves are holy (not Eucharist at either the beginning or at the end of the preparation, of course, but "blessed" in being "set aside"). One can understand the practical use of only one loaf while also appreciating and preferring the symbolism of the five loaves feeding the five thousand. One can also understand that something that has been blessed by being set aside should not be returned to the kitchen for ordinary cooking. It would be much better to use it for a simple and separate breaking of bread.

In a similar way, the note about the Eucharistic bread not absolutely needing to be baked on the very day of the Sacrifice is practical (we have freezers, and it is sometimes impractical to bake for every Divine Liturgy). Still, there is something correct about freshly risen and baked bread becoming the Bread of Life.

I also have nothing against Mirovanije, and see it as practical and useful. But, Vespers and Matins should be restored and this service moved back to where it came from.

Thank you Fr Deacon Anthony and John for the additional information. It is good to get complete and balanced information.

The details and perspectives from the various Churches is very informative.