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#351762 - 08/28/10 12:19 PM
St. John the Baptist as first martyr?
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Junior Member
Registered: 08/29/05
Posts: 25
Loc: Erie PA
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I just throw this question out to satisfy my curiosity, why isn't St. John the Baptist considered the first martyr?
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#351768 - 08/28/10 01:42 PM
Re: St. John the Baptist as first martyr?
[Re: lcanthony]
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Member
Registered: 04/03/09
Posts: 702
Loc: Eagle River, AK, US
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Because St Steven the Deacon was Martyred first.
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#351780 - 08/28/10 04:00 PM
Re: St. John the Baptist as first martyr?
[Re: Job]
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Junior Member
Registered: 08/29/05
Posts: 25
Loc: Erie PA
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And as a sidebar. Does anyone have a theory on why after the theophany there is very little recorded about John. I'd think that John's and Jesus' lives would have been much more intertwined.
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#351781 - 08/28/10 04:38 PM
Re: St. John the Baptist as first martyr?
[Re: lcanthony]
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Member
Registered: 04/03/09
Posts: 702
Loc: Eagle River, AK, US
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St. John had fulfilled his role in Christ's recognition, and from that point on, was simply another route to hearing about Jesus...
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#351784 - 08/28/10 05:06 PM
Re: St. John the Baptist as first martyr?
[Re: aramis]
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Member
Registered: 11/09/01
Posts: 5764
Loc: Falls Church, VA
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Very little is written about John after the Theophany because, as John says, "One who is greater shall come after me". Also, he got into trouble with Herod Antipas and was locked up in the fortress of Macharias, until Salome did her cute little dance. The beginning of Jesus' ministry in or around AD 29-30 coincides with the end of John's in 28-29. The timeline looks something like this
AD 26--Beginning of John's ministry AD 28/29--Baptism of Jesus AD 29--Arrest of John AD 29/30--Death of John, beginning of ministry of Jesus. AD 30-33 Ministry of Jesus AD 33 Crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus AD 34/35 Stoning of Stephen AD 36 Conversion of Saul
Edited by StuartK (08/28/10 05:19 PM)
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#351865 - 08/30/10 12:35 AM
Re: St. John the Baptist as first martyr?
[Re: StuartK]
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Member
Registered: 11/22/07
Posts: 867
Loc: Las Vegas
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Very little is written about John after the Theophany because, as John says, "One who is greater shall come after me" More bluntly: he did his job announcing Who was coming, and got out of the way . . .
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#351876 - 08/30/10 06:36 AM
Re: St. John the Baptist as first martyr?
[Re: dochawk]
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Member
Registered: 11/09/01
Posts: 5764
Loc: Falls Church, VA
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I'm sure, though, that John's ministry continued up to the point of his arrest. John had many followers, including, it would seem, James and John among the Disciples. And there seemed to have been continuing communications between Jesus and John through their overlapping groups of followers. Thus, there is a transitional period in which both Jesus and John are active.
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#351940 - 08/30/10 10:39 PM
Re: St. John the Baptist as first martyr?
[Re: StuartK]
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Member
Registered: 05/19/10
Posts: 256
Loc: Texas USA
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From what I have read there was a significant group of people who believed that John the Baptist not Jesus was the messiah. This conflict apparently continued well into the first century particularly in the Christians called the Johannine Community. See the following: "2.1.3 The adherents of John the Baptist
John portrays the first followers of Jesus as disciples of John the Baptist and the Johannine movement itself may have had its roots among such disciples. Therefore, it is surprising to find in the Fourth Gospel such a large number of negative statements pertinent to John the Baptist. He is not the light (Jn 1:9); he does not antedate Jesus (Jn 1:15, 30); he is not the Messiah, nor Elijah, nor the Prophet (Jn 1:19-24; 3:28); he must decrease while Jesus must increase (Jn 3:30). All this becomes intelligible when we hear in Jn 3:22-26 that some of the disciples of John the Baptist did not follow Jesus (contrast Jn 1:35-37) and jealously objected to the number of people who were following him.
If once more we read the Gospel partly as an autobiography of the Johannine community, we are led to suspect that Johannine Christians had to deal with such disciples and that the negations are meant as an apologetic against them. The fact that they are refuted in the Gospel, not by direct attack upon them as non-believers, but through careful correction of wrong aggrandizement of John the Baptist may mean that the Johannine Christians still held hope for their conversion (compare Acts 18:24-19:7).(7)"
THE JOHANNINE COMMUNITY Herman Hendrickx, C. I. C. M. Theology Annual vol. 12 1990-1991 p.167-180
http://www.shanxixiuyuan.com/sxnk/annaul/A012k.htm
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