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Re: Why is the Immaculate Conception considered Ex-Catherda?
[Re: ByzBob]
#354363
10/13/10 04:06 AM
10/13/10 04:06 AM
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,833
SF Bay Area, CA
Apotheoun
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This is a re-post of a post that was lost:Stuart, I do not mean this as a trap, or to corner you, but how, then can you reconcile this with the words of the Apostolic Constitution, Ineffabilis Deus . . .
Stuart, you do have a talent for polemics!
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Re: Why is the Immaculate Conception considered Ex-Catherda?
[Re: Apotheoun]
#354364
10/13/10 04:10 AM
10/13/10 04:10 AM
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Apotheoun
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This is a re-post of a post that was lost:Just because a Pope says something, and then says it is dogmatically binding . . . . . . doesn't mean everybody will accept it as such. Just ask Gregory VII Hildebrand or Boniface VIII.
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Re: Why is the Immaculate Conception considered Ex-Catherda?
[Re: Apotheoun]
#354368
10/13/10 04:21 AM
10/13/10 04:21 AM
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Posts: 2,833
SF Bay Area, CA
Apotheoun
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This is a re-post of a post that was lost:Dear desertman,
I'm confused. Are you an Eastern Catholic or a Roman Catholic that was looking and changing Churches? Sorry, I forgot. I know there is a new person on here that was looking at changing from Rome to one of the Eastern Catholic Churches other than myself but I forget who he is.
I was wondering if that was you. Quite the irony lol. I started a new thread asking two questions. One of the questions is for you. Would you mind answering ? I'm curious and wish to understand you and others better. Here is the link: [The link is no longer active]
Kyrie eleison,
Manuel
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Re: Why is the Immaculate Conception considered Ex-Catherda?
[Re: ByzBob]
#354370
10/13/10 04:25 AM
10/13/10 04:25 AM
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Apotheoun
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This is a re-post of a post that was lost:At the First Council of Nicaea, while the bishops were the formal delegates and held episcopal jurisdiction, the weight of moral authority actually rested on the Confessors who had suffered in the persecutions for their faith. And laymen have, on occasion, stood against the collected weight of all the bishops, and been vindicated in their stand--witness Maximos the Confessor, a simple monk.
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Re: Why is the Immaculate Conception considered Ex-Catherda?
[Re: ByzBob]
#354371
10/13/10 04:29 AM
10/13/10 04:29 AM
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Posts: 2,833
SF Bay Area, CA
Apotheoun
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This is a re-post of a post that was lost:Good question! No, but there are only two statements that are generally accepted as being ex cathedra, and they both use the same form of words . . . Can. 749 §1 In virtue of his office the Supreme Pontiff is infallible in his teaching when, as chief Shepherd and Teacher of all Christ's faithful, with the duty of strengthening his brethren in the faith, he proclaims by definitive act a doctrine to be held concerning faith or morals.
§2 The College of Bishops also possesses infallibility in its teaching when the Bishops, gathered together in an Ecumenical Council and exercising their Magisterium as teachers and judges of faith and morals, definitively declare for the universal Church a doctrine to be held concerning faith or morals; likewise, when the Bishops, dispersed throughout the world but maintaining the bond of union among themselves and with the successor of Peter, together with the same Roman Pontiff authentically teach matters of faith or morals, and are agreed that a particular teaching is definitively to be held.
§3 No doctrine is understood to be infallibly defined unless this is manifestly demonstrated.
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Re: Why is the Immaculate Conception considered Ex-Catherda?
[Re: ByzBob]
#354375
10/13/10 04:34 AM
10/13/10 04:34 AM
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,833
SF Bay Area, CA
Apotheoun
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This is a re-post of a post that was lost:At the First Council of Nicaea, while the bishops were the formal delegates and held episcopal jurisdiction, the weight of moral authority actually rested on the Confessors who had suffered in the persecutions for their faith. And laymen have, on occasion, stood against the collected weight of all the bishops, and been vindicated in their stand--witness Maximos the Confessor, a simple monk.
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Re: Why is the Immaculate Conception considered Ex-Catherda?
[Re: ByzBob]
#354376
10/13/10 04:35 AM
10/13/10 04:35 AM
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,833
SF Bay Area, CA
Apotheoun
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This is a re-post of a post that was lost:Yes, I have just mentioned Ordinatio sacerdotalis as an example of a document which uses the language of (near-)infallibility. Frankly, this is all a matter of reception, but I do think Ordinatio sacerdotalis will turn out to be just as important as Ineffabilis Deus or Munificentissimus Deus.
However, as a convert to Catholicism I have made a promise to believe and confess all that the Catholic Church believes, confesses and proclaims. Therefore, I try to avoid contradicting the teaching of the Popes and Councils of the Catholic Church.
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Re: Why is the Immaculate Conception considered Ex-Catherda?
[Re: Apotheoun]
#354377
10/13/10 04:37 AM
10/13/10 04:37 AM
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,833
SF Bay Area, CA
Apotheoun
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This is a re-post of a post that was lost:At the First Council of Nicaea, while the bishops were the formal delegates and held episcopal jurisdiction, the weight of moral authority actually rested on the Confessors who had suffered in the persecutions for their faith. And laymen have, on occasion, stood against the collected weight of all the bishops, and been vindicated in their stand--witness Maximos the Confessor, a simple monk.
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Re: Why is the Immaculate Conception considered Ex-Catherda?
[Re: ByzBob]
#354378
10/13/10 04:39 AM
10/13/10 04:39 AM
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,833
SF Bay Area, CA
Apotheoun
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This is a re-post of a post that was lost:Indeed, according to the biography by Ian Ker, Blessed John Henry Newman was critical of the dogma of Papal Infallibility, not because he did not believe in it, but because he thought it was unnecessary at the time. He did not believe in defining dogmas merely for the sake of devotion. He thought that dogmatic definitions should be made from necessity. And, as such, Ordinatio sacerdotalis is a much better candidate for infallible status, because it is clearly a necessary answer to current and widespread heresies and misunderstandings.
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