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#359670 - 02/07/11 01:49 AM
Catholics in Vienna protest over giving church to Orthodox
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Member
Registered: 06/24/05
Posts: 336
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
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Why was this particular parish church chosen? What is the explanation from the Archdiocese of Vienna perspective? http://www.emg.rs/en/news/world/146082.html
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#359671 - 02/07/11 02:46 AM
Re: Catholics in Vienna protest over giving church to Orthodox
[Re: Polish American]
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Member
Registered: 05/20/10
Posts: 309
Loc: Texas USA
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So you are an Austrian Bishop. You have a parish full of Polish immigrants and an empty German speaking parish. Which one do you give to the Serbians? Looks like a no-brainer to me.
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#359679 - 02/07/11 03:58 AM
Re: Catholics in Vienna protest over giving church to Orthodox
[Re: JimG]
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Member
Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 3364
Loc: Etc
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Good for those parishioners to fight for their parish. I hope they get it back.
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#359682 - 02/07/11 04:23 AM
Re: Catholics in Vienna protest over giving church to Orthodox
[Re: JimG]
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Member
Registered: 05/07/09
Posts: 1219
Loc: Texas/USA
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Why would an Austrian Latin-rite bishop give anything to the Serbian Orthodox? I'm not saying it's a bad idea in itself but because of the paucity of available information, it doesn't make sense; not to me, anyway...
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#359709 - 02/07/11 07:17 PM
Re: Catholics in Vienna protest over giving church to Orthodox
[Re: sielos ilgesys]
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Member
Registered: 05/01/09
Posts: 1198
Loc: Upstate New York
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Why would an Austrian Latin-rite bishop give anything to the Serbian Orthodox? I'm not saying it's a bad idea in itself but because of the paucity of available information, it doesn't make sense; not to me, anyway... How about because such an act is a living display of Christian charity, expresses solidarity in the face of the deChristianization of Europe, flies in the face of ancient and festering ancient wounds and because the use of a surplus temple by an Orthodox Christian congregation is far preferable to its use as a nightclub or worse?
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#359710 - 02/07/11 07:50 PM
Re: Catholics in Vienna protest over giving church to Orthodox
[Re: Polish American]
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Member
Registered: 11/09/01
Posts: 6923
Loc: Falls Church, VA
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Precisely. It's not as though Austrians are flocking to church every Sunday.
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#359716 - 02/07/11 10:17 PM
Re: Catholics in Vienna protest over giving church to Orthodox
[Re: DMD]
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Member
Registered: 06/24/05
Posts: 336
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
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I don't know about you, but I would hesitate to call a Catholic parish of 800 members in Vienna a "surplus temple" without knowing more about its neighborhood location, nearby Catholic churches, Mass attendance, finances, local social work, and clergy staffing in the Archdiocese. But then, that's the point - we don't have all the information about the Archbishop's decision. I trust that there were other valid determining factors which were considered much as went into my local diocese's "clustering" process leading to a reduction (closing, merging and selling) of churches in the central city.
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#359720 - 02/07/11 11:29 PM
Re: Catholics in Vienna protest over giving church to Orthodox
[Re: Polish American]
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Member
Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 3364
Loc: Etc
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It says it has an active flock with a primarily Polish congregation. My guess is the Cardinal is trying to make a nice ecumenical gesture and throwing one of his own congregations under the bus in the process.
Not a wise idea in my opinion.
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#359731 - 02/08/11 01:25 AM
Re: Catholics in Vienna protest over giving church to Orthodox
[Re: Polish American]
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Member
Registered: 11/09/01
Posts: 6923
Loc: Falls Church, VA
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Well, the Cardinal could have chosen one of the many churches in Vienna that serve mainly as museums--or mausoleums. That he chose one actually being used indicates he simply cares little about an ethnic parish and hopes this makes it go away.
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#359740 - 02/08/11 02:41 AM
Re: Catholics in Vienna protest over giving church to Orthodox
[Re: DMD]
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Member
Registered: 05/07/09
Posts: 1219
Loc: Texas/USA
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None of those reasons cut any ice with me.
It's already being used as a place of Christian worship in secularized Europe.
If the Cardinal-Archbishop of Vienna wants to express some Christian solidarity he oughtta start with his own flock.
Giving it away to a non-Catholic community will cause, not heal, festering wounds.It's kinda reminiscent of the Soviet govm't confiscating and then giving away our Greek Catholic churches to the Orthodox, who were apparently more than happy to take posession of them; and KEEP them after communism fell and we demanded them back.
I didn't see anyplace that said the edifice might become a nightclub or bar if it were not given to the Orthodox community.
The parishioners who attend there certainly don't seem to see it as a surplus temple.
Edited by sielos ilgesys (02/08/11 02:47 AM)
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#359744 - 02/08/11 03:30 AM
Re: Catholics in Vienna protest over giving church to Orthodox
[Re: Polish American]
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Member
Registered: 03/25/05
Posts: 2455
Loc: SF Bay Area, CA
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Below is a link to an article that quotes portions of Cardinal Schönborn's letter defending his actions. Protests greet donation of Austrian Catholic church to Orthodox The following is an excerpt from the article: "Untruths and simplifications have been spread, filling me with great sadness," said the cardinal. "It has gone so far that I have been accused of deliberately acting against Polish Catholics, and this information has even circulated in southern Poland. I must assure you the truth is quite different."
Schönborn was reacting to protests by local Polish Catholics against news that the city's Our Lady of Sorrows church would be handed over in June 2011 to members of the 160,000-strong Serbian Orthodox community.
. . .
The cardinal had said in a November 19 open letter he had promised to donate the church to the Orthodox after determining it could no longer be maintained by its declining congregation, and would otherwise have had to be closed and sold.
. . .
"I am aware that this is a painful decision for people connected with this place. But the churches we own were built in other times and in the expectation that there would be more Catholics," he stated. "We cannot preserve such a large number of churches forever."
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#359745 - 02/08/11 05:04 AM
Re: Catholics in Vienna protest over giving church to Orthodox
[Re: Polish American]
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Member
Registered: 11/09/01
Posts: 6923
Loc: Falls Church, VA
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The parishioners who attend there certainly don't seem to see it as a surplus temple. Well, that's rather the point, isn't it? If you've been to Vienna, you know that there are many churches, some of great beauty and historical significance, that draw fewer people on a Sunday morning than a public access TV show about Tuvian throat singing. Any one of those would have made an acceptable offering to the Serbian community, yet the Cardinal saw fit to set one ethnic minority--the Poles--against another--the Serbs--by giving the church of the former to the latter. Makes one wonder, doesn't it?
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#359755 - 02/08/11 03:19 PM
Re: Catholics in Vienna protest over giving church to Orthodox
[Re: StuartK]
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Member
Registered: 05/01/09
Posts: 1198
Loc: Upstate New York
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The parishioners who attend there certainly don't seem to see it as a surplus temple. Well, that's rather the point, isn't it? If you've been to Vienna, you know that there are many churches, some of great beauty and historical significance, that draw fewer people on a Sunday morning than a public access TV show about Tuvian throat singing. Any one of those would have made an acceptable offering to the Serbian community, yet the Cardinal saw fit to set one ethnic minority--the Poles--against another--the Serbs--by giving the church of the former to the latter. Makes one wonder, doesn't it? Actually, it sounds as if the Cardinal was sharing notes with some of his American colleagues. I really don't know anything about the situation, so I will defer to those of you have more information. It does seem insensitive at best, given the historical enmity between Poles and Serbs. You certainly learn something every day here. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DY1pcEtHI_w
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#359758 - 02/08/11 03:37 PM
Re: Catholics in Vienna protest over giving church to Orthodox
[Re: DMD]
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Member
Registered: 05/20/10
Posts: 309
Loc: Texas USA
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Given the complaints about chanting on the RDL list it might be appropriate to move the discussion of Tuvian throat singing to that thread.
Jim
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#359759 - 02/08/11 03:58 PM
Re: Catholics in Vienna protest over giving church to Orthodox
[Re: JimG]
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Member
Registered: 02/20/03
Posts: 2219
Loc: Illinois
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All things considered it could be alot worse, the bishop could have given the church to an Islamic group to use as a mosque.
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#359761 - 02/08/11 04:16 PM
Re: Catholics in Vienna protest over giving church to Orthodox
[Re: Lawrence]
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Member
Registered: 03/25/05
Posts: 2455
Loc: SF Bay Area, CA
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All things considered it could be alot worse, the bishop could have given the church to an Islamic group to use as a mosque. True. Based upon the article I found, which has excerpts from the Cardinal Archbishop's November 19th letter, the parish is in decline and is slated for closure. Alas, I was unable to find the Cardinal's letter in its entirety, but hopefully someone else can. I think the letter may explain the position of the Archdiocese more clearly, and knowing both sides in the dispute would be helpful.
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#359765 - 02/08/11 04:44 PM
Re: Catholics in Vienna protest over giving church to Orthodox
[Re: AMM]
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Member
Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 3364
Loc: Etc
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It says it has an active flock with a primarily Polish congregation. My guess is the Cardinal is trying to make a nice ecumenical gesture and throwing one of his own congregations under the bus in the process.
Not a wise idea in my opinion. Never mind. That's the danger of talking when you don't know the facts. Mea culpa.
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#359771 - 02/08/11 08:46 PM
Re: Catholics in Vienna protest over giving church to Orthodox
[Re: AMM]
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Member
Registered: 11/22/10
Posts: 40
Loc: Tel Aviv, Israel
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well to clarify it says the majority are Austrians of Polish decent, not actual Poles
Cardinal Schonborn, the Archbishop of Vienna, is biritual and the ordinary of Byzantine Catholics in Austria - he got an interest with Greek Christianity while as a young religious spending some years with Eastern Orthodox monks, while compiling the Catechism of the Catholic Church he was very much responsible for its Eastern Catholic flavor... ecumenical gesture and gift aside, I am sure he would rather see the temple still used for (apostolic) Christian worship instead of being vacant
Edited by Litvin (02/08/11 08:47 PM)
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