The Byzantine Forum
Newest Members
Rocco, Hvizsgyak, P.W., Ramon, PeaceBeToAll
5,982 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
1 members (1 invisible), 167 guests, and 48 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Latest Photos
St. Sharbel Maronite Mission El Paso
St. Sharbel Maronite Mission El Paso
by orthodoxsinner2, September 30
Holy Saturday from Kirkland Lake
Holy Saturday from Kirkland Lake
by Veronica.H, April 24
Byzantine Catholic Outreach of Iowa
Exterior of Holy Angels Byzantine Catholic Parish
Church of St Cyril of Turau & All Patron Saints of Belarus
Forum Statistics
Forums26
Topics35,388
Posts416,719
Members5,982
Most Online3,380
Dec 29th, 2019
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 2 of 4 1 2 3 4
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 528
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 528
My "throw in a church canon" of the day...


Gangraean Council (340)

Canon 4. If anyone discriminates against a married Presbyter, on the ground that he ought not to partake of the offering when that Presbyter is conducting the Liturgy, let him be anathema.

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,461
Likes: 1
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,461
Likes: 1
"Badges? We don't need no stinking badges."

Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,968
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,968
I think I'm missing the cultural reference here. Badges? From a movie? My ignorance is showing.

Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 101
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 101
It's from Blazing Saddles.

Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 7,309
Likes: 2
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 7,309
Likes: 2
Um, "Treasure of the Sierra Madre". Mel Brooks was making fun of a classic moment in a classic film.

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 28
B
Junior Member
Offline
Junior Member
B
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 28
Originally Posted by DTBrown
I've tried to give a bigger treatment of this conflict and also to improve the translation from the Italian here. [orthocath.wordpress.com]

If others can improve on translations from the Italian originals, I would be grateful for their assistance.

I'd like some proof that what the Italian bishops have done amounts to them saying that married Eastern Catholic priests may not exercise their priestly ministry in Italy.

Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,968
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,968
There are several Italian news articles linked in this thread. What are you looking for, specifically?

Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,688
Moderator
Member
Offline
Moderator
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,688
actually the quote Father Deacon posted is the parody from Blazing Saddles.

The line from the film version of The Treasure of the Sierra Madre is as follows:

Dobbs: "If you're the police where are your badges?"
Gold Hat: "Badges? We ain't got no badges. We don't need no badges! I don't have to show you any stinkin' badges!"

Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 569
Likes: 2
E
Member
Offline
Member
E
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 569
Likes: 2
So, history repeats itself! Having learned nothing from the Ea semper and Cum data fuerit debacles of the twentieth century, the Latin Church is poised once again to sacrifice the legitimate pastoral needs of her red-headed stepchildren of the East on the altar of mandatory celibacy. It seems to matter little that a large proportion of the 'native' Italo-Greek-Albanian clergy is married. Nor yet again that the Romanian Orthodox Patriarchate will not fail to provide pastoral care for her faithful in the persons of married Orthodox priests! Lastly, what surely 'confuses' the Italian layman is not the sacramentally married priesthood but rather the widespread concubinage of some clergy and the isolated cases of sexual abuse.

Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,968
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,968
Bombadil,

In the comments section of my blog article is a comment from the author of the Adista news release in confirmation of the story. They are a well-known religious news agency in Italy and he notes that if this story was incorrect they would have received complaints or requests to either remove or correct their story. There was no negative response at all from Italian religious leaders to the story when Adista published it. He says:

Quote
If we wrote something not correct, sure bishops or catholic church or people were informed and could complain and ask us to remove what we wrote on internet (and what we publish weekly, cause we have a journal, not only a site). Nothing happened about the letter of Bagnasco. I have it, as I have all the documents i write about in my articles.
In any case in Italy that letter was sure not a scandal cause it is an old questions: latin church don’t like married catholic priests. they have few ancient diocesis in Italy in which they can stay, but they are not allowed to do mass and to work in other italian churches, cause bishopes are worried that people could start to think (and to ask to hierarchy…) that it is possible for a catholic priest to be married. and infact it is… but very few people know it… and catholic Church prefer to keep things in that way. You live far from Italy and perharps you cannot understand completely the atmosphere here, in Italy, near the Vatican… what it is possible to discuss everywhere is not so allowed here… the celibate of priests is one of this “forbidden” matter…


Last edited by DTBrown; 03/05/11 05:14 PM.
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 48
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 48
a very depressing post from orthocath:
http://orthocath.wordpress.com/2011...copal-conference-vetoes-married-priests/

basically, what happened 100 years ago and formed the OCA is happening now in Italy- can't confuse the 'faithful' and must preserve celibacy at all costs in the Roman-rite....sad...

so the Anglicans can become Catholic- but our Byzantine traditions are spat upon in Italy...

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 48
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 48
if they want Romanian Byzantine Catholics in Italy to become orthodox- they are starting well. This is why the OCA happened in the US SAD SAD SAD

Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 31
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 31
why do latin bishops have any authority over romanian catholics? Do they not have there own bishop? The second vatican council approved married priests for eastern churches and the eastern code of canon law also allows for it and niether document says anything about only taking place in their home countries. I hope they completely disobey this.

Jesse Venner

Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 7,148
Likes: 65
Moderator
Member
Offline
Moderator
Member
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 7,148
Likes: 65
Quote
The pope, however, may grant a dispensation from this rule through the Congregation for the Eastern Churches, with the approval of the Episcopal Conference in question.


So even with a papal dispensation, the local bishops' conference can veto married clergy.

How about that!

Bob

Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 7,148
Likes: 65
Moderator
Member
Offline
Moderator
Member
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 7,148
Likes: 65
I wonder what the Catholic side would say at the next international ecumenical dialogue if the Orthodox brought this up and brought up the canon that gives the EP jurisdiciton over "the barbarian lands" and then proceeded to tell the Catholics that this can be interpreted to mean the Americas.

Please forgive me on the first Monday of Great Lent--I don't start until Wednesday so I guess I get a pass for being a bit upset about this issue. One Romanian parish is enough to have a priest and if he is celibate, he is isolated in Italy without a support structure in the form of an eparchy. And from the history of Latin bishops providing "support" for Eastern Catholic clergy in the U.S. and elsewhere . . .

Bob

Page 2 of 4 1 2 3 4

Link Copied to Clipboard
The Byzantine Forum provides message boards for discussions focusing on Eastern Christianity (though discussions of other topics are welcome). The views expressed herein are those of the participants and may or may not reflect the teachings of the Byzantine Catholic or any other Church. The Byzantine Forum and the www.byzcath.org site exist to help build up the Church but are unofficial, have no connection with any Church entity, and should not be looked to as a source for official information for any Church. All posts become property of byzcath.org. Contents copyright - 1996-2024 (Forum 1998-2023). All rights reserved.
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5