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THIS is a Political Topic, but also a part of my Faith as a Christian. It has to do with the fact that I am an Englishman, an American, and live in the 21st Century, but have studied History.

So, what is this topic?

The topic is Democracy. Rather, the Topic is, why I am not a Democrat.

Today’s world is aflood with the never ending praise of Democracy as self evidently good and the only Truly legitimate Governmental Form. Democracy is a Human Right, and by it we have Prosperity, Advancement, and Freedom.

Or so we are Told.

We are also told that Democracy is the Societal system that is designed to foster Morality, and will lead to grater cooperation and more fair treatment to all. The past system, Monarchy, had High taxes to pay for the Aristocracy and King, who lived lives of Luxury on the backs of hard pressed serfs who were only Slaves to them. No freedom existed and man lived in misery and oppression till Revolutionaries overthrew the Kings and established Governance for, of, and by the People.

Taxes were high, and we could not do as we liked, and owned nothing, for it all went to he Crown.

Or, so we are Told.

Today I am also confronted by Americans who claim to be Conservative saying that God himself hates Monarchy, and Favours a Self Governing republic, that this is his Will, for all to be Free, not Ruled by a single man. Americas Founders are even said to have based the Constitution on the Bible, and on Israel before the Time of the Kings.

I, however, reject al of the Above. I am a Monarchist.


To many on the American Right, this makes me a Left Wing Progressive Liberal, which is odd as the Right Wing was created to support Monarchy, and the Left always sought its abolition. The Left sees me as a NAZI, a radical Right Winger trying to impose draconian Laws on the Unwilling people who yearn to be Free.

Both discuss how stupid it is to have a Leader who lead sonly because his father did, and how this system may lead to an Incompetent Leader, or a Tyrannical one. Democracy, they argue, avoids this.

I find this silly. We’ve seen Democratically Elected Tyrants, like Hitler, and if people bashed Bush for 8 years because he was an idiot, how can I take them seriously when they say that Democracy avoids this possibility? The Right also routinely blasts some Left Wing Politicians as idiots, such as Harry Reid, or Joe Biden.

But then, they also note that Taxation would go to support the Monarchy. I say, so what? Taxes now go to support the Government, and Historically Taxes were Lowest in Absolute Monarchies. France before the evolution had way Lower taxation than after. The Argument from taxation proves to support Monarchy it the End.

Plus, I have a hard time accepting that because we Vote we are Free. What is so Magical about it? Why do we assume that because someone is Democratically Elected he will not remove from us our Rights? We’ve seen Democratic Governments do just this, while Historically Monarchies ten to not concern themselves with our lives unless we pose a Direct Threat to them or society, Democracies endlessly try to reengineer society. While Monarchs have done this occasionally, it’s a constant Theme in a Democracy.

Plus, in a Democracy we are lead by the Ambitious who sought power, who get in based on a partisan Election. It isn’t really We, the People who select who holds office, but 51% of us, who then impose our will upon the remaining 49%. Whoever is president is president for all, regardless of if they Voted for him or not and those who didn’t Vote for him are still ultimately under his Leadership.

The Election Process itself is divisive, renting asunder society, and forcing us to pick sides, and to create Identities around political ideals that are in the end pre-packaged for us and handed to us by Political parties that come into being to promote a Sectarian ideological View.

This leads to Civil Strife as people argue absent each other over Politics and Society divides into two.

It is also based upon a Short Sightedness and a Selfishness I find distasteful. Democracy breeds a Culture of Immediate gratification and of Hedonistic self Interest, in which you try to ally yourself with a large enough crowd to win society over to your view, and in which every Whim or desire you have becomes a Human Right, with personal Responsibility for your Actions now disperses into the Community.

People want to live however hey please but never pay any sort of price for it, differing that to the Community at Large.

The whole Philosophy is based upon Short Sighted self interest.

I prefer tradition. I prefer the ideal that one has power over what one owns, that traditional morality should be that which guises Society and no Vote will be held upon it. I prefer a Government run by Gods Ideals and not one that is based on Man’s Desires, and that recognises a Central Authority that is shared and in Common.

I prefer a Society that is based around Family. That sees a King as the Head of the Nations Family, as its Father if you will.

I prefer Natural and Organic relationships over the stifling divided Individualism combined with the incompatible collectivism democracy fosters in a Schizophrenic fashion.


I prefer Natural Law and God to Humanity’s attempt at Collectivist control by Numeretic Superiority.

I believe this model also is closest to what God himself is, and what he has made us Like.


Yet I am attacked on all ends for it.

Sorry, this is more to vent I suppose.

Still, are any others here understanding of a Monarchist?


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Originally Posted by ZAROVE
THIS is a Political Topic, but also a part of my Faith as a Christian. It has to do with the fact that I am an Englishman, an American, and live in the 21st Century, but have studied History.

So, what is this topic?

The topic is Democracy. Rather, the Topic is, why I am not a Democrat.

Today’s world is aflood with the never ending praise of Democracy as self evidently good and the only Truly legitimate Governmental Form. Democracy is a Human Right, and by it we have Prosperity, Advancement, and Freedom.

Or so we are Told.

We are also told that Democracy is the Societal system that is designed to foster Morality, and will lead to grater cooperation and more fair treatment to all. The past system, Monarchy, had High taxes to pay for the Aristocracy and King, who lived lives of Luxury on the backs of hard pressed serfs who were only Slaves to them. No freedom existed and man lived in misery and oppression till Revolutionaries overthrew the Kings and established Governance for, of, and by the People.

Taxes were high, and we could not do as we liked, and owned nothing, for it all went to he Crown.

Or, so we are Told.

Today I am also confronted by Americans who claim to be Conservative saying that God himself hates Monarchy, and Favours a Self Governing republic, that this is his Will, for all to be Free, not Ruled by a single man. Americas Founders are even said to have based the Constitution on the Bible, and on Israel before the Time of the Kings.

I, however, reject al of the Above. I am a Monarchist.


To many on the American Right, this makes me a Left Wing Progressive Liberal, which is odd as the Right Wing was created to support Monarchy, and the Left always sought its abolition. The Left sees me as a NAZI, a radical Right Winger trying to impose draconian Laws on the Unwilling people who yearn to be Free.

Both discuss how stupid it is to have a Leader who lead sonly because his father did, and how this system may lead to an Incompetent Leader, or a Tyrannical one. Democracy, they argue, avoids this.

I find this silly. We’ve seen Democratically Elected Tyrants, like Hitler, and if people bashed Bush for 8 years because he was an idiot, how can I take them seriously when they say that Democracy avoids this possibility? The Right also routinely blasts some Left Wing Politicians as idiots, such as Harry Reid, or Joe Biden.

But then, they also note that Taxation would go to support the Monarchy. I say, so what? Taxes now go to support the Government, and Historically Taxes were Lowest in Absolute Monarchies. France before the evolution had way Lower taxation than after. The Argument from taxation proves to support Monarchy it the End.

Plus, I have a hard time accepting that because we Vote we are Free. What is so Magical about it? Why do we assume that because someone is Democratically Elected he will not remove from us our Rights? We’ve seen Democratic Governments do just this, while Historically Monarchies ten to not concern themselves with our lives unless we pose a Direct Threat to them or society, Democracies endlessly try to reengineer society. While Monarchs have done this occasionally, it’s a constant Theme in a Democracy.

Plus, in a Democracy we are lead by the Ambitious who sought power, who get in based on a partisan Election. It isn’t really We, the People who select who holds office, but 51% of us, who then impose our will upon the remaining 49%. Whoever is president is president for all, regardless of if they Voted for him or not and those who didn’t Vote for him are still ultimately under his Leadership.

The Election Process itself is divisive, renting asunder society, and forcing us to pick sides, and to create Identities around political ideals that are in the end pre-packaged for us and handed to us by Political parties that come into being to promote a Sectarian ideological View.

This leads to Civil Strife as people argue absent each other over Politics and Society divides into two.

It is also based upon a Short Sightedness and a Selfishness I find distasteful. Democracy breeds a Culture of Immediate gratification and of Hedonistic self Interest, in which you try to ally yourself with a large enough crowd to win society over to your view, and in which every Whim or desire you have becomes a Human Right, with personal Responsibility for your Actions now disperses into the Community.

People want to live however hey please but never pay any sort of price for it, differing that to the Community at Large.

The whole Philosophy is based upon Short Sighted self interest.

I prefer tradition. I prefer the ideal that one has power over what one owns, that traditional morality should be that which guises Society and no Vote will be held upon it. I prefer a Government run by Gods Ideals and not one that is based on Man’s Desires, and that recognises a Central Authority that is shared and in Common.

I prefer a Society that is based around Family. That sees a King as the Head of the Nations Family, as its Father if you will.

I prefer Natural and Organic relationships over the stifling divided Individualism combined with the incompatible collectivism democracy fosters in a Schizophrenic fashion.


I prefer Natural Law and God to Humanity’s attempt at Collectivist control by Numeretic Superiority.

I believe this model also is closest to what God himself is, and what he has made us Like.


Yet I am attacked on all ends for it.

Sorry, this is more to vent I suppose.

Still, are any others here understanding of a Monarchist?



Yup. It is the big corporations that run the country anyway regardless of what anyone tells you.

Seraphim

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I understand Monarchy, I think that a constitutional form of Monarchy CAN work, but I disagree with your rant about America's republic form of government. Look didn't we have this argument a couple hundred years ago, 1776?

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check out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oath_of_Citizenship_(Canada)

taking that oath and day-today transactions involving coins & the 20$ bill are about as close as any Canadian ever gets to the Monarch (God keep and preserve her).

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Yeah but in 1776 the crown taxes were actually lower than in 1790, and Americas Tax Burden has significantly increased since then to around 25%-40%. Under Parliament it had been around 5%.

I’d also like to point out that in 1776 King George the Third was not an Absolute Monarch and had little real Power. Most of the things in the Declaration of Independence were aimed at actions Parliament took, and simply blamed on the King. Worse still, many of the thing sin the Declaration of Independence that are called Tyrannies I agree with. Why should I find it wrong that the King allowed French Catholics to retain their Laws and Customs? Why should I find it Tyranny that he refused to let the Colonies steal Indian land past the Appalachians?

Plus, America saw a Civil War in 1861, just 87 Years later, which ended with a massive increase it he Power of the Federal Government, and an increase in Taxation.

Plus, The Morality of Society did begin to decline during the Enlightenments relentless push towards Libertine Social Values.

So what are you disagreeing with, exactly?

Last edited by ZAROVE; 04/22/11 03:07 AM.
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Perhaps, but my point is that I want the Monarchy to increase in power and to return to a practice of focusing on Monarichal Rule as opposed to Democratic Rule. Democracy is nothing that it promises.

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J.R.R. Tolkien once observed that the best form of government is a very inefficient absolute monarchy.

Ponder.

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What IS a Caucus-race? said Alice; not that she wanted much to know...

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“It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried.”

Winston Churchill

Also:

“The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter.”

Winston Churchill

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God save the Emperor, and restore the House of Hapsburg to Austria-Hungary. Blessed Emperor Charles, pray for us!

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Now, the Hapsburgs were a good example of an extremely inefficient absolute monarchy. But remember, it was only because of inefficiency that monarchy is tolerable at all. Monarchic absolutism allied to the efficiency of the modern nation state is simply another name for totalitarianism. Because the nation state exists, because it has access to modern technology, absolute monarchy would no longer be inefficient, therefore would be utterly intolerable.

Ponder more.

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In regards to an absolute monarchy, with a good wise ruler it can be one of the best systems of government, at its worse it can be cruel. Be honest, Hitler, Pol Pot, Saddam Hussien, etc . didn't call themselves King but he had all the powers of an absolute King. I allude to Stuarts point.

A constitutional monarchy would be ok but makes little sense unless he or she is actually part of the governance process, unlike the UKs current system. They spend alot of money for the Queen and all she does is "wave at the crowds".

As for America, and our unique system of government. She certainly had her problems and they are getting worse, unless we work to correct them. That being said she has provided and secured for her citizens unprecedented freedom of speech and free markets which has contributed to innovation, and creation which history will one day put into proper perspective.

Taxation was a motivator of our forefathers but it was the issue of no representation, that was intolerable! IF you are going to tax me at least let me have some voice in the matter!- Are the tea partiers having an impact on policy making- I would argue they have. Have progressive liberal grass roots organizations having an impact on politics- they have! Look,... democratic politics can be ugly, this was understood from the beginning. In balance take the ugliest side of absolute monarchy and balance it with the ugliest side of Democratic governments and pick which one tends to respect the individual's God given rights the most and proceed from there!

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Originally Posted by StuartK
Now, the Hapsburgs were a good example of an extremely inefficient absolute monarchy.

!?!!?!?!
i assume you're being sarcastic

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Originally Posted by StuartK
Now, the Hapsburgs were a good example of an extremely inefficient absolute monarchy. But remember, it was only because of inefficiency that monarchy is tolerable at all. Monarchic absolutism allied to the efficiency of the modern nation state is simply another name for totalitarianism. Because the nation state exists, because it has access to modern technology, absolute monarchy would no longer be inefficient, therefore would be utterly intolerable.

Ponder more.


e.g. the Third Reich, Stalin's USSR.... Their technology was ancient by our standards, just imagine how more 'efficient' they would have been today. It is too difficult to even ponder.

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I personally disagree with the idea of an absolute Monarchy. An absolute monarchy fits into big government

Quote
"A govt big enough to supply you with everything you need, is a govt big enough to take away everything you have...." - Thomas Jefferson


Also, I don't think Democracy is the answer. Pure Democracy is a scary proposition in my opinion. This is why our founders did not found a democracy but a Republic.

I find a small, libertarian minded Republic to be the best form of government. This is what I think a majority of our founders believed in as well. This is the genius of our Republic envisioned by the founders (especially Thomas Jefferson)and is what we should strive to return to here in this country, IMHO.

Quote
My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government. - Thomas Jefferson


If we look at the history of modern dictatorships, absolute monarchies, and out of control big government democracies then Thomas Jefferson's words holds true- bad government results from too much government.

The government the governs the best governs the least.

Last edited by Nelson Chase; 04/22/11 05:29 PM.
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