A Detroit Catholic Church is being sold to be reopened as a mosque. The link has the story:

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061027/LIFESTYLE04/610270380/1041

This is an intolerable, utter disgrace - and to top all, the church is dedicated to Our Lady, Help of Christians (a title which remembers her help at the Battle of Lepanto).

Every self-respecting Christian in Michigan should be picketing the Archdiocese of Detroit, non-stop, demanding to know why, instead of selling the church - for money! - to the Moslems, the building is not being used to evangelize amongst the Moslems! As it is, the Moslems are now able to tell their followers "The Christians don't want you; they don't care about your souls, all the Christians want is your money!"

What shall we hear of next?

Father Serge

Very, true, Father. I was really surprised by the comment of the priest "the whole neighborhood is Islamic. This will fit right in"

How shortsighted!!!

The Muslims first conquered by the scimitar...now they conquer through Christian contraception!

The Muslims are having children and raising them in their faith. Where will the Christians find themselves in 20 years in Europe and the US?

What a travesty...I love the idea of an outreach to Muslims. But in this age of religious tolerance, the active evangelization of one group is regarded as INTOLERANCE and borderline heresy. And to think that the Archdiocese supports the first STL program in the New Evangelization in the world at Sacred Heart Seminary?!?

Heaven help us...

"And said to them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer, but ye have made it a den of thieves."

"As sad as it may be for some people, Our Lady Help of Christians' neighborhood is no longer dominated by Polish Catholics so it makes sense for the Islamic community to move in, said the Rev. Andrew Wesley."
Where does "Fr Andy" come up with this? Maybe St. Czar Martyr Lazar should have said the same thing and let the Hagarenes have Europe?

Alexandr

Now the Tigers will never win the World Series

Let's all calm down here!

If this church were located in an area where "Christians" are willing to go to worship I believe it would still be open.

The church my grandmother was baptized in, over 100 years ago, is now some sort of condominium, B&B, kinda place. Other churches in this area have been sold to other denominations or have been turned into breweries and chic nightclubs.

I'm not sure of the proper phrasing, but all of these churches have been "decommissioned".

If we all don't flee to the suburbs maybe some of the churches will remain open for years to come.

We're all comfortable where we're at though, right?

Who Knows?

In Christ,
Bill

I think it's the idea of selling out to what many people, myself included, think of as the bane of the Catholic dogma's existence that's what's irritating us, Bill.


I must say I'm disgusted. Catholics shouldn't give up their buildings to ANY Muslim, sorry. We've fought them too long to have this happen.

What has happened to us?

Shlomo Lkhoolkhoon,

This thread is heading towards a biggoted bend. First, as one of the few Middle Eastern Catholics on this board I can tell you that our Patriarchs have called on us to work with our Muslim Brothers and Sisters, just as they have with our Jewish ones.

Further, for those that are upset about a Church having to be sold, maybe if more Catholics would give more than 1.2% of their income to the Church, it would be able to keep more open.

We are under a lot of pressure in the Middle East, but we are able to thrive. The reason for that is that we realize that our lives are intertwined with Muslims, and that by showing Christian charity, we live by the example of Our Lord and God.

Poosh BaShlomo Lkhoolkhoon,
Yuhannon

Sorry Yuhannon, but I have to disagree with you. Yes, the Middle Eastern Christians are in a tight spot. But those Christians who have lived under the Hagarene yoke, (Greeks, Serbs, Bulgars, Armenians, etc) know all too well that living next to muslims really means living under their thumb. The infidels have openly stated that they mean to convert or destroy us. Look at our poor Christian brothers in Kosovo. The blood of their new martyrs cries out to us. The Cossacks have a saying that rings very true. "There's only ONE WAY to keep faith with a Turk. Put your faith in your sword and the sword in the Turk."

Alexandr

Shlomo Slavipodvizhnik,

First I would like to point out that we are in America, and therefore, we need to look at this as Americans. Not all Muslims are alike, just as not all Christians are alike.

As I was pointing out about the Middle East, the other point that was implied, but I will state specifically is that many Muslim lands (Jordan, UAE, Qatar, Bahrain, Oman, Tunisia, etc.) have given land to Church to help their flocks.

Still, my major point was not answered, which is if American Catholics do not want these Churches to be sold off then they have to give at levels that can substain them.

Poosh BaShlomo,
Yuhannon

A principle rarely followed strictly, but a church that is consecrated along with the altar has no business being converted for secular use, much less being handed over to another religious faction's custody for the sake of worship.

Had the bishop an ounce of sense, he would, if indeed the church could no longer support a dwindling parish community whether thanks to its own self-destructive liturgical practices or some other reason, put the building in the care of an Eastern jurisdiction, whether Catholic, Orthodox, or Oriental. I knew a Coptic community that transformed a church they acquired, modern and ugly in design, into something magnificent that could never be hinted at by the building's exterior.

In Canada, Western churches are selling like hotcakes and make for a lucrative market. The ultimate designs for a church building range from condominiums to incorporation into a university campus (Concordia University has now effectively acquired -- the matter proceeds in instalments -- the famous grey nuns' house, a fine peace of real estate covering a good-sized area) to bars. To whip up a good quote: I think the phrase rhymes with 'clucking bell'.

It's a sad state of affairs.

Mir Ti Yuhannon,

I still have to disagree with you. I am an Orthodox Christian before I am an American, a Russian, a Republican, or any other title, and I have to look at it with the eyes of an Orthodox Christian. And as an Orthodox Christian, when faced with an ideology that is diametrically opposed to all that I believe, whose core beliefs call for my conversion and/or destruction, I have 2 choices, martyrdom or resistance. I choose the latter.
Go to the muslim lands that you mentioned. Put on a riassa, stand on the street and call for the muslims to convert, and see what happens. The muslims in Paris and London march in the streets calling for jihad. Try protesting hagarene extremism in Rijad and see what happens to you.
I was more than content to ignore the hagarene threat until the incident in Beslan. Now, just as God commanded that the Amalakites be destroyed, so now the new Amalakites are calling down God's wrath upon themselves.

Better that the Church had been burnt to the ground, than sold to the enemies of Christ.

Alexandr

A fact to keep in mind, both of you, is that the social fabrics, histories, cultural ties, degrees of friction and polarisation (the latter to some extent influenced by the number of religious factions present and members) and levels of co-existence (much better in the Levant) and animosity (quite pronounced in the Balkans) that exist in the Balkans and in areas of the Levant are very different and peculiar to themselves. Hence the range of different perspectives on matters such as relations between prevalent factions and whatnot differs coming from inhabitants of the two regions. It practically stinks for anyone coming from either side to project his particular worldview onto a different region with little knowledge of its social and political idiosyncrasies.

As for the matter of giving away churches, it doesn't tie into the matter of relations between the religions, but rests on a basic Christian principle that a consecrated house of God should not be given over to the faithful of another religion for the purpose of worship, however cordial and healthy the relationships between members of two different religions in a given area happen to be.

I would substitute 'locally-formed viewpoints' for 'worldview' in that last post.