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#364636 - 05/24/11 10:08 AM
Prostopenije from Transcarpathia/Uzhorod
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Member
Registered: 05/01/09
Posts: 960
Loc: Upstate New York
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I just came across this Youtube user from Uzhorod. There are a number of prostopenije renderings, including excerpts from a Paraklis Service at a pilgrimage. This service was indeed beloved by our people, both Greek Catholic and Orthodox and, sadly, has fallen into relative disuse. It was a long standing staple during Lent prior to the restoration of the Pre-Sanctified Liturgy. http://www.youtube.com/user/logostvuzhgorod#p/f/5/r2XVVBCfzS8Take notice of the troparion, Tone 4 at 3:33, the so-called 'Johnstown' variation is chanted. This was always a sore subject with my late father who trained us in the Presov version. Anyway, thanks to the youtube host.
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#364637 - 05/24/11 10:25 AM
Re: Prostopenije from Transcarpathia/Uzhorod
[Re: DMD]
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Member
Registered: 11/09/01
Posts: 6017
Loc: Falls Church, VA
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The Melkites still celebrate Paraclesis at Lent and during the Nativity Fast. Interesting how many different variations of Prostopinje exist--all the more reason for not codifying on a single one. This is a living oral Tradition, and should remain one even in the "diaspora".
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#364639 - 05/24/11 10:45 AM
Re: Prostopenije from Transcarpathia/Uzhorod
[Re: StuartK]
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Member
Registered: 05/01/09
Posts: 960
Loc: Upstate New York
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Indeed, I couldn't help but find myself singing along with the pilgrims as I teared up more than a bit. I know that Metropolitan Nicholas and my father are joining in as well, they so loved the Marian devotions of our people. When I see things like this, I find myself mixed with the memories of joy and the sorrow about the vanity and stupidity of humanity which divided our people. Indeed, O Maria, Mati Boze, Molisja za Nas.
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#364641 - 05/24/11 01:32 PM
Re: Prostopenije from Transcarpathia/Uzhorod
[Re: Paul B]
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Member
Registered: 05/01/09
Posts: 960
Loc: Upstate New York
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I think that they are from Muchachevo in Transcarpathia, as there would be no reason for Slovaks to be singing a Ukrainian hymn at the end. There could be people from both sides of the border though at the pilgrimage. The woman's conference videos show the Cathedral church in Muchachevo, the vigil videos are from the Cathedral in Uzhorod.
A problem with restoring Paraklis at this point in time, is that few of us can remember exactly how to sing it, particularly in English - again regardless of which side of the unfortunate 'divide' we fall on!
Edited by DMD (05/24/11 01:34 PM)
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#364642 - 05/24/11 02:59 PM
Re: Prostopenije from Transcarpathia/Uzhorod
[Re: DMD]
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Member
Registered: 11/09/01
Posts: 6017
Loc: Falls Church, VA
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We did Paraclesis one year at Orientale Lumen. Never have heard it during its heyday, I have no idea if we did it correctly. This is why someone's suggestion to have all the cantors write down all their arrangements of everything and compile them in a large volume was a very good idea--even if a certain episcopal person shot it down as Not Invented Here and went out of his way to hound the person who proposed it.
An excellent way of encouraging initiative among the laity, if I do say so myself. Taken right out of that old Carpathian classic, Management Secrets of Vlad the Impaler.
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#364646 - 05/24/11 05:21 PM
Re: Prostopenije from Transcarpathia/Uzhorod
[Re: StuartK]
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Member
Registered: 05/01/09
Posts: 960
Loc: Upstate New York
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My father was among the more knowledgeable priests within ACROD of his generation regarding prostopenije, along with his Bishop, the late Metropolitan Nicholas. He learned the chant from his mentor, Father Orestes Koman of Elizabeth, NJ and his cantor at SS. Peter and Paul Greek Catholic Church, John Molnar. After the schism, as a seminarian, he studied under Bishop Orestes Chornock who also had a mastery of prostopenije.
While he had an obligatory copy of Bokshay, he always stressed that it was through the oral propagation of the chant, led by a well trained cantor, that the chant would be preserved. Unfortunately, the schism within the Rusyn Greek Catholic church in America led to two similar, but distinct schools of chant in the states as we used differing English translations.
The decision to 'codify' and standardize the chant has not always been successful as it takes away the lead role of the cantor and tries to erase regional variations.
Our brethern in Uzhorod have continued the tradition in the spirit of Bokshay and others and they are to be commended. Many Years! Mnohaja Lit!
Oh, as to Vlad Dracu....he is from the south of us Rusnaks, so we won't take credit for him. Maybe we could claim Vigo the Carpathian from Ghostbusters 2, but not old Vlad! lol
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#364655 - 05/24/11 08:11 PM
Re: Prostopenije from Transcarpathia/Uzhorod
[Re: DMD]
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Member
Registered: 11/09/01
Posts: 6017
Loc: Falls Church, VA
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Possibly also the Schmenge Brothers, Stosh and Stan, though they claimed to be from Leutonia (on the dark side of the Carpathians). Cabbage rolls and coffee, mmm-mmm good!
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#364660 - 05/24/11 10:03 PM
Re: Prostopenije from Transcarpathia/Uzhorod
[Re: DMD]
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Member
Registered: 11/11/01
Posts: 1269
Loc: PA
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Oh, as to Vlad Dracu....he is from the south of us Rusnaks, so we won't take credit for him. Maybe we could claim Vigo the Carpathian from Ghostbusters 2, but not old Vlad! lol
Is it the Alba-Iulia eparchy that Vlad is from?
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#364663 - 05/24/11 11:05 PM
Re: Prostopenije from Transcarpathia/Uzhorod
[Re: DMD]
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Member
Registered: 01/27/02
Posts: 1933
Loc: Sharon/Hermitage, PA
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Fr. John Duranko made two notated editions of Paraklis: Slavonic and English. The Slavonic one is a gem, since it accurately reproduces the melodies that have been forgotten in many sectors. The English version utilized (for the most part) the small Paraclis booklet published by ACROD in the 1950s. In the Pocono Deanery of ACROD, they still get together during Lent and sing Paraclis mostly in Slavonic; videos are on YouTube courtesy of St. George's in Taylor. http://youtu.be/EukbAENhygshttp://youtu.be/2AbocXhOsh4Dn. David
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#364665 - 05/24/11 11:20 PM
Re: Prostopenije from Transcarpathia/Uzhorod
[Re: Paul B]
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Member
Registered: 11/09/01
Posts: 6017
Loc: Falls Church, VA
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Yes. Though Vlad predates the Union of Alba Julia by some 225 years or so. Living in the immediate aftermath of the Union of Brest and the fall of Constantinople, on the borderlands between Latin and Eastern Christianity, as well as the frontier with the Turks, Vlad went back and forth between the Catholic and Orthodox Churches several times during his life as was politically expedient. During his time in the court of Matthias Corvinas, he was Catholic, but back home in Transylvania he was Orthodox.
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#364691 - 05/25/11 08:26 AM
Re: Prostopenije from Transcarpathia/Uzhorod
[Re: StuartK]
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Member
Registered: 05/01/09
Posts: 960
Loc: Upstate New York
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Yes. Though Vlad predates the Union of Alba Julia by some 225 years or so. Living in the immediate aftermath of the Union of Brest and the fall of Constantinople, on the borderlands between Latin and Eastern Christianity, as well as the frontier with the Turks, Vlad went back and forth between the Catholic and Orthodox Churches several times during his life as was politically expedient. During his time in the court of Matthias Corvinas, he was Catholic, but back home in Transylvania he was Orthodox. Not exactly an uncommon journey in those days...
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#364693 - 05/25/11 09:32 AM
Re: Prostopenije from Transcarpathia/Uzhorod
[Re: DMD]
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Member
Registered: 11/09/01
Posts: 6017
Loc: Falls Church, VA
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I should have said Union of Florence (1436), not Union of Brest (1596).
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#364900 - 05/31/11 10:20 AM
Re: Prostopenije from Transcarpathia/Uzhorod
[Re: StuartK]
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Member
Registered: 05/01/09
Posts: 960
Loc: Upstate New York
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Liturgy from Muchachevo Cathedral, from the Otce Nas. It is wonderful to see how our people have continued. The Liturgy reminds me so of the days when Bishop Orestes, and I am sure his counterparts in the BCC, were alive and our churches were full and the mix of choir and plain chant resonated throughout the congregations. Christos Posredi Nas, for sure! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-78WOi1LL8E&feature=feedu
Edited by DMD (05/31/11 10:20 AM)
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#364901 - 05/31/11 11:10 AM
Re: Prostopenije from Transcarpathia/Uzhorod
[Re: DMD]
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Member
Registered: 11/09/01
Posts: 6017
Loc: Falls Church, VA
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Very nice. It looks like they have the entire liturgy there, though I was unable to locate the first video in the sequence of seven. I take it, based on the iconography, that the cathedral in Muchachevo remained in use during the Soviet period, under Orthodox management?
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#364903 - 05/31/11 12:01 PM
Re: Prostopenije from Transcarpathia/Uzhorod
[Re: StuartK]
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Member
Registered: 05/01/09
Posts: 960
Loc: Upstate New York
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I believe that it did so remain in use.
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#364909 - 05/31/11 03:03 PM
Re: Prostopenije from Transcarpathia/Uzhorod
[Re: Paul B]
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Member
Registered: 05/01/09
Posts: 960
Loc: Upstate New York
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The Choir/Cantor methodology was common under the late Metropolitan Nicholas of ACROD. Those from the Pittsburgh area who may have attended pilgrimage liturgies at Camp Nazareth can attest to this. As his family's Rusyn roots were from Transcarpathia, this should not be a surprise. With his passing, I hope we don't lose this. No clue on your deacon question.
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#364936 - 06/01/11 07:58 AM
Re: Prostopenije from Transcarpathia/Uzhorod
[Re: DMD]
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Member
Registered: 05/19/10
Posts: 275
Loc: Texas USA
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I notice that they use the traditional Carpathian cross with the horizontal bottom bar rather than the slanted bar of the Greek cross. Any ideas why the Greek cross is generally used in the Byzantine Catholic Church? What is the practice in ACROD?
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#364939 - 06/01/11 09:08 AM
Re: Prostopenije from Transcarpathia/Uzhorod
[Re: DMD]
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Member
Registered: 01/27/02
Posts: 1933
Loc: Sharon/Hermitage, PA
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I say the following not as official policy statements, but rather as private, personal observations:
In ACROD, deacons may wear either the single "Russian" orarion or the longer "Greek" orarion. Only elevated protodeacons or archdeacons, however, may wear the kind that is pointed and sewn together under the arm.
Regarding crosses, while historically one could argue that a cross with three straight bars was a legitimate variant of the three-armed cross, the fact is that among Carpatho-Rusyns in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, such a cross was seen as a marker of being in the Unia, and a cross with a slanted bottom bar was seen as a sign of Orthodoxy. In ACROD, I have never seen a cross with three straight bars in or on any of our churches. As far as I can tell, it was never utilized.
Dn. David
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#364941 - 06/01/11 10:25 AM
Re: Prostopenije from Transcarpathia/Uzhorod
[Re: Chtec]
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Member
Registered: 05/01/09
Posts: 960
Loc: Upstate New York
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I say the following not as official policy statements, but rather as private, personal observations:
In ACROD, deacons may wear either the single "Russian" orarion or the longer "Greek" orarion. Only elevated protodeacons or archdeacons, however, may wear the kind that is pointed and sewn together under the arm.
Regarding crosses, while historically one could argue that a cross with three straight bars was a legitimate variant of the three-armed cross, the fact is that among Carpatho-Rusyns in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, such a cross was seen as a marker of being in the Unia, and a cross with a slanted bottom bar was seen as a sign of Orthodoxy. In ACROD, I have never seen a cross with three straight bars in or on any of our churches. As far as I can tell, it was never utilized.
Dn. David I agree with Dn. David. In our town, the BCC church built in the 1950's after the schism did not incorporate any three bar cross, the domes had a Latin cross. Their social center, built in the 1960's had the three straight bar cross on it. Last year they rebuilt the towers and guess what? A shiny, gold three bar slanted cross is atop each of the towers. Life is a journey, as they say.
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#366965 - 07/20/11 10:44 AM
Pilgrimage Videos with Prostopenije from Transcarpathia
[Re: DMD]
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Member
Registered: 05/01/09
Posts: 960
Loc: Upstate New York
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Our friends from Muchachevo are posting a series of beautifully shot videos from the Blessed Teodor Rhomza Centennial pilgrimage this week in Transcarpathia. Well worth viewing....They make me a bit sad as they remind me of the late Metropolitan Nicholas and the annual camp youth pilgrimage he so loved. This is one of many from yesterday. I am sure that many of you will be reminded of the 'old days' at Uniontown as well! http://www.youtube.com/user/logostvuzhgorod#p/f/2/L6zHB3Uig-A
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#367023 - 07/21/11 11:38 AM
Re: Pilgrimage Videos with Prostopenije from Transcarpathia
[Re: DMD]
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Member
Registered: 05/01/09
Posts: 960
Loc: Upstate New York
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#367027 - 07/21/11 12:57 PM
Re: Pilgrimage Videos with Prostopenije from Transcarpathia
[Re: DMD]
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Member
Registered: 11/09/01
Posts: 6017
Loc: Falls Church, VA
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Very well done videos--good quality images and sound. I would be immensely happy to see this level of liturgy observed in the Ruthenian Metropolia, even if it had to be done in Slavonic.
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#367046 - 07/21/11 04:56 PM
Re: Pilgrimage Videos with Prostopenije from Transcarpathia
[Re: StuartK]
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Member
Registered: 05/01/09
Posts: 960
Loc: Upstate New York
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Bishop Milan's style of liturgics and that of the late Metropolitan Nicholas of ACROD bear great similarity. (THis should be no surprise, remember that the Metropolitan's roots were from Transcarpathia and that his home parish of St. John's in Perth Amby, New Jersey was founded by Rusyns from the Uzhorod districts.) What you see on these videos is typical of the liturgical celebrations in most ACROD parishes today, even down to the mixing of choral and plain chant responses in both Slavonic and the vernacular.
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#367099 - 07/23/11 10:41 AM
Re: Pilgrimage Videos with Prostopenije from Transcarpathia
[Re: ukrainiancatholic]
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Member
Registered: 05/01/09
Posts: 960
Loc: Upstate New York
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In Slovakia you can here the same thing, only Slovak is mixed with CS. It is kind of sad in that since the war and the border changes that the Rusyn peoples have drifted away from their own dialect into either one of Slovak or Ukrainian with a few 'po nasemu' vestigial odds and ends. But that has been and will always be the way of the world, nothing stays as once it was.
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#367331 - 07/29/11 09:53 AM
Re: Pilgrimage Videos with Prostopenije from Transcarpathia
[Re: DMD]
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Member
Registered: 05/01/09
Posts: 960
Loc: Upstate New York
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I have been enjoying these videos, but I am somewhat dismayed by a few of the more recent ones posted in the last few days which show a fair amount of 'modernization' in terms of guitar playing and western hymns being sung. It would appear to me that there is a clash among the clergy there between the traditionalists and modernizers who seem to bring a decidedly Latinizing influence to the table. I realize that they are competing with Protestants and Latin rite Catholics, but this sort of innovation only drives the Eastern Catholics further away from their Orthodox brothers and sisters.
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