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As strange as it may seem I actually heard a rumor today about the original subject of this post. I was told there is likely to be an announcement about the new Metropolitan in the next couple of weeks. My source is as credible as any I guess especially since it isn't me.

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Originally Posted by Irish Melkite
Originally Posted by DMD
Then there was 'St. _______ Carpatho Russian Independent Christian Church' of ____________, PA. We used to call them the " up the 'Cricc'" church in the old days...... They really, really, really wanted everyone to know that THEY owned the place - not any bishop, patriarch or pope......


David,

There aren't any of the 'Independents' left, are there?


At least as of a couple of years ago, there was still a breakaway priest calling himself something like, "the American Byzantine Catholic Church" here in town, apparently a schism from my parish with a former priest.

hawk

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Is that the parish where the priest was running a dope ring from the rectory, or the other one?

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Originally Posted by dochawk
Originally Posted by Irish Melkite
Originally Posted by DMD
Then there was 'St. _______ Carpatho Russian Independent Christian Church' of ____________, PA. We used to call them the " up the 'Cricc'" church in the old days...... They really, really, really wanted everyone to know that THEY owned the place - not any bishop, patriarch or pope......


David,

There aren't any of the 'Independents' left, are there?


At least as of a couple of years ago, there was still a breakaway priest calling himself something like, "the American Byzantine Catholic Church" here in town, apparently a schism from my parish with a former priest.

hawk


My reference to the 'Independents' was to the principally Carpatho-Rusyn (and a few Ukrainian, I believe) parishes that maintained an independent staus after separating from the Ruthenian and Ukrainian Catholics in the aftermath of the splits involving the clerical celibacy issues.

The majority of these were, I believe, initally motivated by a desire to avoid involvement with the then Russian Orthodox Metropolia. Most ultimtely came into communion with the ACROD, the OCA, or the Ukrainian Orthodox.

[None of these involved vagante, such as the one you describe. It was formed in 1994, still exists on S Eastern Ave, and styles itself as the ABCC Shrine of Our Mother of Perpetual Help.]

Many years,

Neil


"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."
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Now Philadelphia has a new Latin Metropolitan. Cardinal Rigali was replaced today by Archbishop Chaput of Denver. It sounds like a pretty big change...

So, who knows, maybe the Byzantine Metropolia of Pittsburgh is next? Appointments do get made, even during the Roman summer holiday.

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I have been told that this takes time....usually 3 are suggested and then one is chosen.

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How hard can it be? There are only three remaining bishops. This means either (a) someone doesn't want the job (a distinct possibility) or (b) that one or more of the bishops objects to the candidacy of one of his brother bishops; or (c) that it has been made clear through back channels that one or more of the current bishops is not acceptable to the Holy See. All of those mean that the Council of Hierarchs must now dip down into the ranks of the presbyterate to find a candidate, which opens a whole new kettle of worms. Do they follow the example of the UGCC and pick some young, dynamic and eminently Eastern priest to lead the Metropolia? Or do they find some nice, safe, and relatively elderly monsignor who will maintain the status quo for the next decade or so? It's a critical decision, as the Metropolia will not survive another decade of drift.

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We will survive in some shape or form. I don't expect any decision in August. The fact that Bishop Gerald will be ordaining the deacon class in Oct indicates that we aren't expecting installation before November at the earliest.

The timetable is my speculation only; I have heard nothing official (or even unofficial).

Anyone know how long after the Resurrection the Apostles named a replacement for Judas? Or elected the 5 deacons?

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Anyone know how long after the Resurrection the Apostles named a replacement for Judas? Or elected the 5 deacons?


Apparently a few weeks in the case of Matthias. It was shortly after Pentecost, according to Acts. The Apostles considered it symbolically important to have an inner circle of Twelve, so as to represent the New Israel.

As for the election of the deacons (it was seven, not five, wasn't it?), that happened in response to an emerging pastoral need; i.e., to care for the "Hellenized" (non-Judean Jewish) members of the Church and to free up the Apostles to celebrate Liturgy and think weighty thoughts. From the internal evidence of the Bible, this must have happened within a year or so of the Resurrection. If Paul's conversion is dated to AD 36, and occurred after the death of St. Stephen, then the institution of the diaconate had to have occurred between late spring AD 33 and some time in AD 35, but probably much earlier than that, if Stephen was able to make such a name for himself as to attract the attention of the Sanhedrin.

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Originally Posted by StuartK
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Anyone know how long after the Resurrection the Apostles named a replacement for Judas? Or elected the 5 deacons?


Apparently a few weeks in the case of Matthias...

As for the election of the deacons ... this must have happened within a year or so of the Resurrection.
Indeed, my impression from reading the Acts of the Apostles is that these issues were acted upon swiftly. According to the psedepigraphal Acts of Simon Magus, however, they sent names to Rome and are still waiting.

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smile Wish I'd said that.

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Maybe Stuart's got it right. His reasons sound spot on. How about the idea that no one wants the job, given the RDL. Would anyone actually want to be the one presiding over the final sinking of the ecclesiastical ship?

Bob

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Theophan/Bob,

With all due respect, unless you are a prophet, speaking into the future may be suboptimal at best.

At the same time as I am in disagreement with your one sentence summary, I must admit that I pray not that my Ruthenian Mother Church will thrive by staying as she is, but that she would grow in faithfulness to her traditions, and by uniting with the other Byzantine jurisdicitons in this country. We have been divided for too long, for too few reasons. Keep the musical diversity, lose the canonical overlap. This is my prayer, even if our Metropolitan had been elevated in June of 2010.

In XC,
J. Andrew

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Dear J. Andrew,

Your points are well taken and clearly articulated. May I suggest a serious discussion with Patriarch Sviatoslav during his forthcoming visit to the USA?

Fr. Serge

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Not my party so to speak, but why would the Carpatho-Rusyns of the BCC want to be united under Philadelphia today any more than in 1920? Munkacs and Kiev hardly get along in Europe, wouldn't this just cause more strain within the Church? Same problem we Orthodox have.

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