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Re: Can my byzantine son be admitted to communion? [Re: desertman] #365923 06/24/11 05:17 PM
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Memo Rodriguez Offline
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Originally Posted by desertman
Are you talking about the unleavened host being problematic? I was wondering how that would work. There are even adults who have a difficult time swallowing an unleavened host.


Correct. And since we do not use spoons, administering the Precious Blood is just as, if not more, complicated.

Shalom,
Memo

Re: Can my byzantine son be admitted to communion? [Re: Wheelbarrow] #365929 06/24/11 06:55 PM
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Correct. And since we do not use spoons, administering the Precious Blood is just as, if not more, complicated.

Since infants received in the Latin Church up through the 12th century, do what they probably did: the celebrant dips his finger in the chalice, then inserts his finger into the baby's mouth.

Yeah, I know--cooties!

Re: Can my byzantine son be admitted to communion? [Re: StuartK] #366022 06/27/11 06:24 PM
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Memo Rodriguez Offline
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Originally Posted by StuartK
Since infants received in the Latin Church up through the 12th century, do what they probably did: the celebrant dips his finger in the chalice, then inserts his finger into the baby's mouth.

Yeah, I know--cooties!


I would certainly not mind doing that, but you need to understand that in my neck of the woods, folks complain about receiving from the hands of a minister who has touched someone to give them a blessing if they came up but asked not to receive the Sacrament.

We need to "bless" people with the back of our hands, because our palms and fingers need to be sterlie if we're touching something that will go into people's mouths.

People are funny. Some of the same folks making these demands are also those who insist in receiving in the mouth. Are they aware of what exactly that wetness on our fingertips is, after we have ministered the Sacrament this way a handful of times?

I guess in some cultures it is possible to believe that you can share a family meal in a "sterile" way. As Hispanics, we are raised knowing better, and I am sure this experience is shared by many other cultures represented in this forum. But believe me, there's people out there...


Shalom,
Memo

Last edited by Memo Rodriguez; 06/27/11 06:24 PM.
Re: Can my byzantine son be admitted to communion? [Re: Memo Rodriguez] #366134 06/29/11 11:37 PM
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ROFL

You need to be in regular contact with germs to keep your immune system up and working.

Re: Can my byzantine son be admitted to communion? [Re: Memo Rodriguez] #366153 06/30/11 09:47 AM
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The best I've seen is on RC Church in Atlanta where the extraordinary ministers of Holy Communion first go ritually to dispensers of hand sanitizer and wash their hands before distributing Communion.

Re: Can my byzantine son be admitted to communion? [Re: Latin Catholic] #366155 06/30/11 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Latin Catholic
Originally Posted by StuartK
Oh, that's good. Perhaps you could convince the parents of Latin Catholic children to rebel against the fragmentation of the Rites of Initiation by presenting their children for Holy Communion as soon as they are baptized?

If so, the rebellion should include demanding that the children be confirmed immediately after baptism and before receiving Holy Communion.


So then soon won't people in LA be complaining about the Grecification occurring in their Church? :-)

But that is amazing that they allow the parents to decide with respect to Communion. I have heard of RC parents in Atlanta having to jump through hoops to get their children First Holy Communion before age 7. (Since age 7 is that magical age of reason.)

Interestingly we have a similar problem, but in our Greek Catholic parishes, because for reason's that don't make much sense to me, after receiving Communion with baptism the children are not admitted to communion until years later after making first confession. This only being in the Eparchy of Košice, or maybe also the Archeparchy of Prešov. In Bratislava I am told the normal practice of children always receiving Communion is followed.

Re: Can my byzantine son be admitted to communion? [Re: Andrew Ray] #366195 07/01/11 01:26 PM
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after receiving Communion with baptism the children are not admitted to communion until years later after making first confession.


That makes absolutely no sense...sounds to me like "latinization-lite"...we will emulate the latins but add eucharist at least at the baptism to say "we are upholding our traditions"...I think I heard of a BCC Eparchy in North America that does the same thing...although, it's very possible I misunderstood...at least I keep telling myself I misunderstood...

Re: Can my byzantine son be admitted to communion? [Re: Wheelbarrow] #367920 08/16/11 03:42 PM
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I converted from Latin Rite to Byzantine Rite - and in the process my son and wife were left behind (they are Roman Catholic on the books)

I have found tremendous resistance from the EASTERN CHURCH to transfer him and to communicate him ... I am told now that he cnannot become Eastern Rite until he is 18.

I took him out of CCD - at a Roman Catholic Church where we were respected and WANTED - and now belong to an Eastern Church where we are ignored and rejected and there is tremendous resistance to letting my son take the Eucharist.

It is very difficult to watch babies who are adored take the Eucharist - while the Church sees fit to only "bless" my son.

Had I not taken him out of CCD he would have received the Blessed Sacrament last Easter (Pascha) in the Latin Rite (2nd Grade)

Now I have a child that is basically in Limbo - a wife who is angry about the rejections we have received and canonanical mistakes all over the place

God help me with this!

My advise to you is to make sure you study canon law of the Eastern Church and make sure you don't end up like my family.
1/2 Latin 1/2 Eastern

Re: Can my byzantine son be admitted to communion? [Re: Wheelbarrow] #367924 08/16/11 04:52 PM
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Actually, wife and minor children follow the faith of the father. So your son should have been transferred with you (he can make his own choice when he is 18). He would need to be chrismated before he could receive communion, though. Your wife does not need formally to change her particular ritual Church and can return to the Latin Church upon your repose in the Lord. That's the theory, in any case. As always, when flesh and blood people are involved, things get messy.

I suggest you kick this upstairs to the chancery--parish priests are often sketchy on these canonical details.

Re: Can my byzantine son be admitted to communion? [Re: StuartK] #367928 08/16/11 05:43 PM
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Fr Serge Keleher Offline
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Move to Dublin. Canon law seldom impresses me.

Fr. Serge

Re: Can my byzantine son be admitted to communion? [Re: haydukovich] #367929 08/16/11 06:22 PM
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Originally Posted by haydukovich




It is very difficult to watch babies who are adored take the Eucharist - while the Church sees fit to only "bless" my son.

Had I not taken him out of CCD he would have received the Blessed Sacrament last Easter (Pascha) in the Latin Rite (2nd Grade)




What exactly are they waiting for? Even if the Byzantine parish treats your son as Latin (which he isn't, according to my understanding), he is still a parishioner. Are they telling you that the Latin parish has to prepare him for his First Communion and he has to receive there, then they would admit him to communion?

How strange...

Re: Can my byzantine son be admitted to communion? [Re: babochka] #367930 08/16/11 06:28 PM
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Has his son received the Sacrament of Chrismation? This could be why.
I believe at our parish in San Diego parents of Children who have not made the switch canonically to the Ruthenian Church (so our Roman Catholic members who are drawn east) have our priest ask permission to Chrismate their children (or baptize and chrismate) from the local Latin bishop and then from there the children receive the Eucharist every Sunday.

It seems in this case that the child is canonically Eastern and if so if he hasn't received the sacrament of Chrismation he needs to do so! I would contact the canon lawyer for the Eparchy in question and see what they say.

Last edited by Nelson Chase; 08/16/11 06:30 PM.
Re: Can my byzantine son be admitted to communion? [Re: Wheelbarrow] #367936 08/16/11 08:12 PM
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Has his son received the Sacrament of Chrismation? This could be why.


I suspect this is the sticking point. But arranging chrismation should be easy enough--except that the priest in question does not recognize that minor children are enrolled in the Church of the father. If the father changes his Church, then the minor children change, too.

Re: Can my byzantine son be admitted to communion? [Re: StuartK] #367939 08/16/11 09:07 PM
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Fr. Deacon Lance Offline
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Haydukovich,

The relevant canons from the CCEO:

Canon 33

A wife is at liberty to transfer to the Church of the husband at
the celebration of or during the marriage; when the marriage has
ended, she can freely return to the original Church sui iuris.

Canon 34

If the parents, or the Catholic spouse in the case of a mixed
marriage, transfer to another Church sui iuris, children under
fourteen years old by the law itself are enrolled in the same
Church; if in a marriage of Catholics only one parent transfers
to another Church sui iuris, the children transfer only if both
parents consent. Upon completion of the fourteenth year of age,
the children can return to the original Church sui iuris.


The Canons are clear so I don't know what this left behind nonsense is about. If you are enrolled in the Byzantine Catholic Church, your wife has the right to switch automatically and your kids under 14 are to be automatically enrolled. I would contact the Chancery if I were you.

Last edited by Fr. Deacon Lance; 08/16/11 09:18 PM.

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Re: Can my byzantine son be admitted to communion? [Re: Nelson Chase] #367960 08/17/11 03:17 AM
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babochka Offline
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Originally Posted by Nelson Chase
Has his son received the Sacrament of Chrismation? This could be why.
I believe at our parish in San Diego parents of Children who have not made the switch canonically to the Ruthenian Church (so our Roman Catholic members who are drawn east) have our priest ask permission to Chrismate their children (or baptize and chrismate) from the local Latin bishop and then from there the children receive the Eucharist every Sunday.




I was raised Eastern, but am canonically Latin, married to a Latin. Each of my 5 children has been Chrismated and received Communion without a problem in the Ruthenian church. My last 3 were baptized in the Ruthenian Church as well. As a toddler, I was also Chrismated and received Communion in the Ruthenian Church. Four different priests have been involved, and none has objected.

Even if your priest does not agree that your child is Byzantine, can't he view him as a visiting Latin child? Is every Latin child who has received his First Communion, but not yet been confirmed, denied Communion?

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