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#369426 - 09/20/11 10:17 PM Re: Discerning what to accept from the Pope [Re: JDC]
Athanasius The L Online   content
AthanasiusTheLesser
Member

Registered: 06/29/06
Posts: 1218
Loc: Houston, TX
Originally Posted By: JDC
Originally Posted By: jjp
Considering that studies show Roman Catholics committing the mortal sin of contraception at the same rate as the general population, perhaps the ire should not be so accutely directed at the Catholics here with a patrimonial history of tolerating it to begin with.


Friend, speaking as a nut-job traditionalist ossified Roman kook fully lacking in both historical perspective and Christian charity, I want to assure you that we hate those guys way, way more. I can't speak for my Eastern brothers.


Since when are we to hate anyone, or is this just a traditionalist thing?


Edited by Athanasius The L (09/20/11 10:18 PM)

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#369427 - 09/20/11 10:37 PM Re: Discerning what to accept from the Pope [Re: Athanasius The L]
JDC Offline
Member

Registered: 01/27/11
Posts: 494
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: Athanasius The L
Since when are we to hate anyone, or is this just a traditionalist thing?


It was a joke. Sorry.

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#369430 - 09/20/11 11:56 PM Re: Discerning what to accept from the Pope [Re: JDC]
Athanasius The L Online   content
AthanasiusTheLesser
Member

Registered: 06/29/06
Posts: 1218
Loc: Houston, TX
Originally Posted By: JDC
Originally Posted By: Athanasius The L
Since when are we to hate anyone, or is this just a traditionalist thing?


It was a joke. Sorry.


No problem.

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#369586 - 09/24/11 06:45 AM Re: Discerning what to accept from the Pope [Re: Carson Daniel]
haydukovich Offline
Member

Registered: 06/16/09
Posts: 387
Loc: Las Vegas, NV USA
I am really happy to see we all agree on the abortifactant issue

Sorry if I strayed from the topic ... i am pro life to the core

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#369614 - 09/25/11 09:03 PM Re: Discerning what to accept from the Pope [Re: Nelson Chase]
dochawk Offline
Member

Registered: 11/22/07
Posts: 907
Loc: Las Vegas
Originally Posted By: Nelson Chase


In an eventual reunion of the Churches will the Eastern Orthodox Churches be forced to stop the practice of



We can safely cut the question there, and answer, "no."

There won't be a reunion if either party is forced to adopt the other's practices in place of it's own.

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#369619 - 09/26/11 02:42 AM Re: Discerning what to accept from the Pope [Re: dochawk]
Nelson Chase Offline
Member

Registered: 01/13/09
Posts: 748
Loc: The threshold of Fatherhood
Quote:
We can safely cut the question there, and answer, "no."

There won't be a reunion if either party is forced to adopt the other's practices in place of it's own.


I agree.

So, then my question is this. Eastern Catholic Churches will reunite and be under our Mother Orthodox Churches after reunion. (except for the few who don't have an Orthodox counterpart) Is it wrong then for Eastern Catholics now to fully follow the faith of the Orthodox Church, If that faith and practice is not going to change on that blessed day of reunion? why or why not?

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#369631 - 09/26/11 03:29 PM Re: Discerning what to accept from the Pope [Re: Nelson Chase]
JDC Offline
Member

Registered: 01/27/11
Posts: 494
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Your question seems based on some assumptions which are by no means certain.

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#369633 - 09/26/11 04:50 PM Re: Discerning what to accept from the Pope [Re: Carson Daniel]
jjp Offline
Member

Registered: 08/05/10
Posts: 617
Loc: California
I think that's what other people call "faith".

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#369634 - 09/26/11 04:51 PM Re: Discerning what to accept from the Pope [Re: JDC]
Nelson Chase Offline
Member

Registered: 01/13/09
Posts: 748
Loc: The threshold of Fatherhood
Quote:
Your question seems based on some assumptions which are by no means certain
.

Like?

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#369636 - 09/26/11 06:24 PM Re: Discerning what to accept from the Pope [Re: Nelson Chase]
JDC Offline
Member

Registered: 01/27/11
Posts: 494
Loc: Ontario, Canada

Originally Posted By: Nelson Chase
Quote:
Your question seems based on some assumptions which are by no means certain
.

Like?



Like that there will be reunion, that at such a time, the Eastern Catholic Churches will settle in with their Mother Churches, that the apparently necessary council in such an event wouldn't reconcile differences, and that none of the differences, however substantial, represent errors in need of correction.

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#369637 - 09/26/11 06:35 PM Re: Discerning what to accept from the Pope [Re: Carson Daniel]
jjp Offline
Member

Registered: 08/05/10
Posts: 617
Loc: California
It sounds like you are saying that just because such an outcome is not a guarantee, we do not therefore have the charge to act as if it will happen.

Is that what you are saying?

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#369639 - 09/26/11 07:02 PM Re: Discerning what to accept from the Pope [Re: JDC]
Nelson Chase Offline
Member

Registered: 01/13/09
Posts: 748
Loc: The threshold of Fatherhood
Quote:
Like that there will be reunion


I pray that I am alive for the blessed day!

Quote:
that at such a time, the Eastern Catholic Churches will settle in with their Mother Churches


This is the goal of Eastern Catholic Churches- to disappear. We are only temporary until reunion (fully) between East and West. This is not just my opinion but of many Eastern Catholics including Bishops.

Quote:
that the apparently necessary council in such an event wouldn't reconcile differences


Orthodoxy and Roman Catholicism have much more in common that people seem to think. Of course the major difference is the nature of the Pope's Primacy. Even this is not settled within the Catholic Communion. This will need to be worked on together but other than that why would East and West have to change anything about their beliefs or praxis?

Quote:
and that none of the differences, however substantial, represent errors in need of correction.


I don't think the Orthodox are in error nor do I think Rome is in error. They express the same Apostolic faith- one from a Latin view point and the other from the Byzantine/Greek/Slavic view point. We lived together for over a thousand years- with differences, why can't we hope for it again?

Maybe once we get past the "I am right, you are wrong" mentality then we can have full communion.


Edited by Nelson Chase (09/26/11 07:06 PM)
Edit Reason: spelling

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#369640 - 09/26/11 07:15 PM Re: Discerning what to accept from the Pope [Re: jjp]
JDC Offline
Member

Registered: 01/27/11
Posts: 494
Loc: Ontario, Canada

Originally Posted By: jjp
It sounds like you are saying that just because such an outcome is not a guarantee, we do not therefore have the charge to act as if it will happen.

Is that what you are saying?


Me? No, that's not what I am saying. Rather, the matter of having or not having a charge would seem somewhat beside the point that enough people acting as if a thing has or certainly will happen has proven an effective way to bring about that change.

But the question was about the advisablility of Eastern Catholics acting today as if these things had been accomplished. I suppose to the extent that you view all these potential developments as desirable, you will want to act them out. I question the assertion, if made, that the interested parties do, in the majority, view these things as desirable.

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#369643 - 09/26/11 09:38 PM Re: Discerning what to accept from the Pope [Re: Carson Daniel]
Carson Daniel Offline
Member

Registered: 11/07/01
Posts: 5783
Loc: Walled Lake, Mi
I certainly do not consider the use of Artificial Contraception as a desirable thing at all. I thank God every day for Pope Paul VI courage in writing what he did.

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#369644 - 09/26/11 10:51 PM Re: Discerning what to accept from the Pope [Re: Carson Daniel]
Nelson Chase Offline
Member

Registered: 01/13/09
Posts: 748
Loc: The threshold of Fatherhood
Oh, Carson...same old tired jab at others opinions. Even though everyone has tried explaining the Eastern concept of Economía your argument is the same- that everything that the Pope says is right and all the other Patriarchs, Bishops, theologians are wrong, and he is our Patriarch, so the practice of the Christian East should just conform to the Latin West.

You are entitled to your opinion and other Eastern Catholics are entitled to theirs.

No one has ever said that A.C is a good thing but the practice of how the Apostolic Churches deal with the subject are vastly different- even within Orthodoxy as some have pointed out. One approach is very rigid and the other approach takes a more pastoral approach. Both ways have the same ultimate goal-the salvation of the souls of the couple.

In a reunion of the Churches the Orthodox practice should not change and neither should the Roman Catholic for their respective Churches- what individual members of those Apostolic Churches choose to follow- the Latin or the Eastern- is up to the couple, their conscience, and their spiritual father.


Edited by Nelson Chase (09/26/11 11:06 PM)

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