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#370271 - 10/12/11 03:01 AM St. Faustina Kowalska: Doctor of the Church?
Happy Birthday sielos ilgesys Offline
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Registered: 05/07/09
Posts: 1219
Loc: Texas/USA
It's being proposed that St. Faustina, the nun who received the private revelations which developed into the devotion to the Divine Mercy, be declared a doctor of the (Catholic) Church.

http://www.zenit.org/rssenglish-33593

I myself am uncomfortable with this proposal - not that I think it'll get anywhere. What might other posters think abt. this idea?

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#370274 - 10/12/11 03:57 AM Re: St. Faustina Kowalska: Doctor of the Church? [Re: sielos ilgesys]
JDC Offline
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Registered: 01/27/11
Posts: 597
Loc: Ontario, Canada
P.C. nonsense.

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#370424 - 10/15/11 09:56 PM Re: St. Faustina Kowalska: Doctor of the Church? [Re: sielos ilgesys]
John Doucette Offline
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Registered: 05/05/07
Posts: 398
Loc: Long Island
I think that it would be wonderful if this humble little saint from Poland were to be declared a Doctor of the Church. Saint Faustina is certainly worthy of this honor. If it were not for her, we would not have the wonderful Divine Mercy devotion!

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#370425 - 10/15/11 10:29 PM Re: St. Faustina Kowalska: Doctor of the Church? [Re: John Doucette]
JDC Offline
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Registered: 01/27/11
Posts: 597
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: John Doucette
Saint Faustina is certainly worthy of this honor.


Worthiness is why she's a Saint. A doctor of the church needs to write things.

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#370438 - 10/16/11 02:31 AM Re: St. Faustina Kowalska: Doctor of the Church? [Re: JDC]
Happy Birthday sielos ilgesys Offline
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Registered: 05/07/09
Posts: 1219
Loc: Texas/USA
She wrote plenty. Her Diary is widely read among devout RCs. It's long and complicated. And plenty has been written about her and her mystical experiences. As I've said before: be careful of mysticism. It can contain a lot of mist and provoke schism.

I think some of what she wrote was consoling but some of it was IMO downright bizarre.

But may her prayers obtain the salvation of our souls.

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#370439 - 10/16/11 03:25 AM Re: St. Faustina Kowalska: Doctor of the Church? [Re: sielos ilgesys]
JDC Offline
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Registered: 01/27/11
Posts: 597
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: sielos ilgesys
Her Diary is widely read among devout RCs.


So is Anne Frank's, and nobody's suggesting she's in a league with Chrysostom, Augustine, or Aquinas. It's just more modern Feelgoodey Foolishness where the real meaning of a word doesn't matter as long as people enjoy the deception.

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#370467 - 10/16/11 11:09 PM Re: St. Faustina Kowalska: Doctor of the Church? [Re: sielos ilgesys]
Booth Offline
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Registered: 02/13/04
Posts: 263
Loc: upstate NY
The Divine Mercy, as promoted by St. Faustina, is my primary private devotion.

Some of the diary is quite singular, or so I thought, until reading St. Theresa of Avila. I don't hold myself out as an expert on either, but the same sense of the faith permeates both, in my opinion, although the personalities are quite different.

The diary is sometimes a difficult text, and if we grant the authenticity of her experience with Christ, we still don't have Scripture's guarantee of inerrant human transmission. Also, the diary is of course about her own journey, and when it is written for others, it is often directed at monastics. The first time I read the diary was like the first time I read certain portions of the Philokalia ... they freaked me out ... but I think they both have to be considered in light of one's station in life.

I believe that the devotion itself was literally hand-delivered to me by Providence, and that practicing it has brought down tremendous graces on me and my family.

Also, there are several intriguing little things in the diary and devotion that I know that I would not have picked up on if I was practicing in one of the Roman rites. It is all very curious.

So, all that being said ... while it does seem to my layman's opinion that St. Faustina would not be held as a doctor, seeing that, from what I can tell most of the doctors are such for clarifying doctrinal questions, I would personally give her no less honor than most of the doctors, if not perhaps in that category.

And so I would take great delight in the church (presumably the Latin Church) assigning her an appropriate honorific, along with any attendant liturgical commemoration.


Edited by Booth (10/16/11 11:15 PM)

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#370468 - 10/16/11 11:22 PM Re: St. Faustina Kowalska: Doctor of the Church? [Re: JDC]
Booth Offline
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Registered: 02/13/04
Posts: 263
Loc: upstate NY
Originally Posted By: JDC
So is Anne Frank's, and nobody's suggesting she's in a league with Chrysostom, Augustine, or Aquinas. It's just more modern Feelgoodey Foolishness where the real meaning of a word doesn't matter as long as people enjoy the deception.


There are people that use the diary for "feelgoodey" purposes, but much of the actual text is quite terrifying.

In my experience, the ones who talk it up as a back-door to near-universal salvation haven't actually read it.

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#370469 - 10/16/11 11:47 PM Re: St. Faustina Kowalska: Doctor of the Church? [Re: Booth]
JDC Offline
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Registered: 01/27/11
Posts: 597
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: Booth
Originally Posted By: JDC
So is Anne Frank's, and nobody's suggesting she's in a league with Chrysostom, Augustine, or Aquinas. It's just more modern Feelgoodey Foolishness where the real meaning of a word doesn't matter as long as people enjoy the deception.


There are people that use the diary for "feelgoodey" purposes, but much of the actual text is quite terrifying.

In my experience, the ones who talk it up as a back-door to near-universal salvation haven't actually read it.



By "feelgoodey foolishness" I refer to the suggestion that she be considered a doctor of the church, not to the text itself.

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#370480 - 10/17/11 03:39 AM Re: St. Faustina Kowalska: Doctor of the Church? [Re: JDC]
Happy Birthday sielos ilgesys Offline
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Registered: 05/07/09
Posts: 1219
Loc: Texas/USA
Comparing the 2 women's diaries is like comparing apples to oranges. Both are fruits, and that's where it stops.

Faustina's diary is published today in order to convey new and - presumably - deeper insights into the mystery of God's goodness and mercy. It also proposes novel concrete devotional practices. To say nothing about the rather strange idiom and metaphors used in the text. Parts of it are downright spooky - but that can be said of the Bible, too.

I'm uncomfortable with using private revelations to have such a ponderous influence on the Church's Liturgy. None of the liturgical observances derived from St. Faustyna's diary and enjoined by Bl. Pope John Paul 2 on the Latin Church have any effect in (as far as I know) any of the Eastern Catholic Churches.

As far as I am aware, Anne Frank and her harassed and persecuted companions were secularised Jews with little religious practice. She wasn't trying to promote anything devotional but she did end up composing a text which has had a striking and IMO positive influence on subsequent generations.

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#370483 - 10/17/11 04:43 AM Re: St. Faustina Kowalska: Doctor of the Church? [Re: sielos ilgesys]
JDC Offline
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Registered: 01/27/11
Posts: 597
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: sielos ilgesys
Comparing the 2 women's diaries is like comparing apples to oranges.



What am I speaking Latin over here? I wasn't comparing the books except maybe to make a little fun of the diary genre. St. Faustina hasn't written anything remotely substantial enough to be called a Doctor of the Church. That's all I'm saying.

If her writing makes her a Doctor of the Church, then about a hundred thousand other people deserve the title as well. Some of them undoubtedly post on Byzcath.

Either that or Doctor of the Church means a little more than "wrote a book once. Some people liked it".

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#370498 - 10/17/11 12:28 PM Re: St. Faustina Kowalska: Doctor of the Church? [Re: JDC]
Happy Birthday sielos ilgesys Offline
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Registered: 05/07/09
Posts: 1219
Loc: Texas/USA
I think you're correct in saying St.Faustina's writings are inadequate for her to be declared a Docotr of the Church.

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#370507 - 10/17/11 03:29 PM Re: St. Faustina Kowalska: Doctor of the Church? [Re: sielos ilgesys]
danman916 Offline
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Registered: 11/12/07
Posts: 463
Loc: Illinois
I had heard that somewhere St. Faustina wrote that she received a revelation that souls, at the very moment before death, were given a final chance of repentance to choose eternal life or not. I had heard that God's mercy is so great, that the Lord gives everyone this moment.

(if this is true, then what great mercy it is! However, I also see this as being an excuse to live a sinful life apart from the daily conversion we are called to. I can see this as a cause for spiritual laziness.)

Is anyone who is familiar with St. Faustina know the source for this?

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#370513 - 10/17/11 05:45 PM Re: St. Faustina Kowalska: Doctor of the Church? [Re: danman916]
griego catolico Offline
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Registered: 12/10/01
Posts: 1198
Loc: Sunny California
Originally Posted By: sielos ilgesys
I think you're correct in saying St.Faustina's writings are inadequate for her to be declared a Docotr of the Church.


You're forgetting that St. Thérèse of Lisieux was declared Doctor of the Church based on her autobiography, which some would find inadequate.

Originally Posted By: danman916
I had heard that somewhere St. Faustina wrote that she received a revelation that souls, at the very moment before death, were given a final chance of repentance to choose eternal life or not. I had heard that God's mercy is so great, that the Lord gives everyone this moment.

(if this is true, then what great mercy it is! However, I also see this as being an excuse to live a sinful life apart from the daily conversion we are called to. I can see this as a cause for spiritual laziness.)

Is anyone who is familiar with St. Faustina know the source for this?


It's found in her diary, article 1486.

Quote:
Conversation of the Merciful God with a Despairing Soul.

Jesus: O soul steeped in darkness, do not despair. All is not yet lost. Come and confide in your God, who is love and mercy.

-But the soul, deaf even to this appeal, wraps itself in darkness.

Jesus calls out again: My child, listen to the voice of your merciful Father.

- In the soul arises this reply: "For me there is no mercy," and it falls into greater darkness, a despair which is a foretaste of hell and makes it unable to draw near to God.

Jesus calls to the soul a third time, but the soul remains deaf and blind, hardened and despairing. Then the mercy of God begins to exert itself, and, without any co-operation from the soul, God grants it final grace. If this too is spurned, God will leave the soul in this self-chosen disposition for eternity. This grace emerges from the merciful Heart of Jesus and gives the soul a special light by means of which the soul begins to understand God's effort; but conversion depends on its own will. The soul knows that this, for her, is final grace and, should it show even a flicker of good will, the mercy of God will accomplish the rest.

My omnipotent mercy is active here. Happy the soul that takes advantage of this grace.

Jesus: What joy fills My Heart when you return to me. Because you are weak, I take you in My arms and carry you to the home of My Father.

Soul (as if awaking, asks fearfully): Is it possible that there yet is mercy for me?

Jesus: There is, My child. You have a special claim on My mercy. Let it act in your poor soul; let the rays of grace enter your soul; they bring with them light, warmth, and life.

Soul: But fear fills me at the thought of my sins, and this terrible fear moves me to doubt Your goodness.

Jesus: My child, all your sins have not wounded My Heart as painfully as your present lack of trust does - that after so many efforts of My love and mercy, you should still doubt My goodness.

Soul: O Lord, save me yourself, for I perish. Be my Savior. O Lord, I am unable to say anything more; my pitiful heart is torn asunder; but You, O Lord... Jesus does not let the soul finish but, raising it from the ground, from the depths of its misery, he leads it into the recesses of His Heart where all its sins disappear instantly, consumed by the flames of love.

Jesus: Here, soul, are all the treasures of My Heart. Take everything you need from it.

Soul: O Lord, I am inundated with Your grace. I sense that a new life has entered into me and, above all, I feel Your love in my heart. That is enough for me. O Lord, I will glorify the omnipotence of Your mercy for all eternity. Encouraged by Your goodness, I will confide to You all the sorrows of my heart.

Jesus: Tell me all, My child, hide nothing from Me, because My loving Heart, the Heart of your Best Friend, is listening to you.

Soul: O Lord, now I see all my ingratitude and Your goodness. You were pursuing me with Your grace, while I was frustrating Your benevolence. I see that I deserve the depths of hell for spurning Your graces.
Jesus (interrupting): Do not be absorbed in your misery-you are still too weak to speak of it-but, rather, gaze on My Heart filled with goodness, and be imbued with My sentiments. Strive for meekness and humility; be merciful to others, as I am to you; and, when you feel your strength failing, if you come to the fountain of mercy to fortify your soul, you will not grow weary on your journey.
Soul: Now I understand Your mercy, which protects me, and like a brilliant star, leads me into the home of my Father, protecting me from the horrors of hell that I have deserved, not once, but a thousand times. O Lord, eternity will hardly suffice for me to give due praise to Your unfathomable mercy and Your compassion for me.

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