Newest Members
Mendeleyev, Vinolentus, RusOrthCath, Cavaradossi, Roman Interloper, ftbond, NitaMacdonald1930, SOL, etomaria, Kostyantyn, Benny, Ivanov325, DocH, andria, Joe Smith
4467 Registered Users
Who's Online
11 registered (Latin Catholic, Fr. Deacon Lance, Booth, Peter J, babochka, Curious Joe, antv, Nicole, StuartK, JLF, 1 invisible), 178 Guests and 3 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Latest Photos
Pascha Dublin 2012
Centennial of the Eparchy of Hajdudorog
Hierarchial Divine Liturgy at Holy Trinity Cathedral OCA SF
OLF: What a difference a day makes...
Easter Sunday - Pascha - Velik Den- St. Michael's, Binghamton,NY
Forum Stats
4467 Members
26 Forums
30165 Topics
373795 Posts

Max Online: 1087 @ 07/16/07 01:09 PM
Page 3 of 3 < 1 2 3
Topic Options
#370918 - 10/26/11 07:52 PM Re: The problem of married clergy for our Coptic brethren [Re: Irish Melkite]
Fr. Deacon Lance Online   content

Moderator
Member

Registered: 08/29/98
Posts: 3811
Loc: Washington, PA
One must remember that the Coptic Catholic Church, as well as the Syriac and Ethiopian Catholic Churches all adopted celibacy as normative for those aspiring to the presbyterate with the Patriarch, and in the case of the Ethiopians the Metropolitan, able to dispense from this requirement. The CCEO did not abrogate the particular law of these Churches nor that of the Syro-Malabar and Syro-Malankara Catholic Churches, which voluntarily adopted mandatory celibacy for the presbyterate. In addition, the Armenian, Maronite, and Chaldean Catholic Churches seem fine with using only celibate priests in their diaspora eparchies/exarchates. Only the Melkites, Ukrainians and Romanians have championed the issue of ordaining married candidates in the diaspora with the Ruthenians sheepishly entering the waters.

So as noted, Rome says nothing to those Eastern Catholic Churches who ordain married candidates in the diaspora but it also does nothing to encourage Eastern Catholic Churches who have adopted celibacy in whole or part to return to the tradition of a married presbyterate or to eliminate the confusion some have on whether there is or is not a ban still in force. What rebuke did the Italian Bishops Conference receive for telling the Romanian Greek Catholic Church it could not send married priests to Italy? Rome is just fine with the status quo which is the majority of Eastern Catholic Churches not having married priests outside the homeland.

It is here the Orthodox could help us. Instead of calling for our dissolution they should demand that as a condition of continued dialogue Rome unequivocally declare that the Eastern Catholic Churches can ordain married candidates anywhere and that the diaspora eparchies are immediately under the jurisdiction of their own chief Hierarch and Synod rather than the Pope through the Oriental Congregation.
_________________________
My cromulent posts embiggen this forum.

Top
#370924 - 10/26/11 10:58 PM Re: The problem of married clergy for our Coptic brethren [Re: Fr. Deacon Lance]
Nelson Chase Offline
Member

Registered: 01/12/09
Posts: 571
Loc: La Mesa, Ca
Quote:
Rome is just fine with the status quo which is the majority of Eastern Catholic Churches not having married priests outside the homeland.


Sad, but true.


Quote:
It is here the Orthodox could help us. Instead of calling for our dissolution they should demand that as a condition of continued dialogue Rome unequivocally declare that the Eastern Catholic Churches can ordain married candidates anywhere and that the diaspora eparchies are immediately under the jurisdiction of their own chief Hierarch and Synod rather than the Pope through the Oriental Congregation.


Spot on Fr. Deacon Lance!!

The words of Patriarch Gregory of Antioch come to mind from his speech Ecclesiology and Ecumenism addressed to, I believe, Pope Benedict:

Quote:
Treat us as a real Eastern Church, just as you would the Orthodox on the day when the much longed for union takes place!

Top
#370931 - 10/27/11 11:33 AM Re: The problem of married clergy for our Coptic brethren [Re: Fr. Deacon Lance]
Michael_Thoma Offline
Member

Registered: 07/10/05
Posts: 1929
Loc: Chicago
Originally Posted By: Fr. Deacon Lance
One must remember that the Coptic Catholic Church, as well as the Syriac and Ethiopian Catholic Churches all adopted celibacy as normative for those aspiring to the presbyterate with the Patriarch, and in the case of the Ethiopians the Metropolitan, able to dispense from this requirement. The CCEO did not abrogate the particular law of these Churches nor that of the Syro-Malabar and Syro-Malankara Catholic Churches, which voluntarily adopted mandatory celibacy for the presbyterate. In addition, the Armenian, Maronite, and Chaldean Catholic Churches seem fine with using only celibate priests in their diaspora eparchies/exarchates. Only the Melkites, Ukrainians and Romanians have championed the issue of ordaining married candidates in the diaspora with the Ruthenians sheepishly entering the waters.
The problem lies in the principle, how would Rome react if the Melkites decided that no celibate Latin priest can function within their jurisdiction without the Patriarch's "dispensation"? How does this act treat all Churches as fully "in Communion"? The line "with friends like that who needs enemies" comes to mind...
The problem lies in putting up arbitrary constructs which prevent the full function of one's Church. I'd like to see the Byzantines go after Latin's in their territory for using unleavened hosts, or facing the 'wrong' way at Mass and see how Rome reacts. Just because one can does not mean one should.

Top
#370936 - 10/27/11 01:55 PM Re: The problem of married clergy for our Coptic brethren [Re: Irish Melkite]
jjp Offline
Member

Registered: 08/04/10
Posts: 455
Loc: California
This is an instance in which I think the Pope is remiss not by doing too much, but by doing too little.

Orientale Lumen was a good step in encouraging the Eastern Catholic Churches to reclaim their patrimony, but clearly some of these churches are still having a problem in that regard - my own included. That this is allowed to remain the status quo in my mind is a disservice.

Should we need the Pope in order to reclaim our patrimony? No, and there are EC churches that have done so on their own accord. But if the Pope won't correct our wayward leadership, how is he serving us?

Top
#370942 - 10/27/11 05:03 PM Re: The problem of married clergy for our Coptic brethren [Re: jjp]
sielos ilgesys Offline
Member

Registered: 05/07/09
Posts: 1090
Loc: Texas/USA
Well, being Pope of Rome is a thankless task as well as a major pain in the toe...he has so many irons in the fire. I bet there are days when he doesn't know if he's coming or going.

Just now he has a golden opportunity to appoint an effective, Eastern-oriented "we-ain't-apologisin'-one-bit-for-who-we-are" metropolitan for the Byzantine Ruthenian Church in the USA. Sure hope he takes advantage of it but may God's Will be done. I hope we pray for the Pope not only during the Liturgy but in personal, private prayer as well.

I've discovered that God's Will often contradicts what I think is best...maybe that's because I ain't no god. DUH!

Top
#370946 - 10/27/11 06:37 PM Re: The problem of married clergy for our Coptic brethren [Re: Irish Melkite]
StuartK Online   content
Member

Registered: 11/09/01
Posts: 6018
Loc: Falls Church, VA
Quote:
Just now he has a golden opportunity to appoint an effective, Eastern-oriented "we-ain't-apologisin'-one-bit-for-who-we-are" metropolitan for the Byzantine Ruthenian Church in the USA.

Do you know where this fantastic, mythical creature can be found?

Top
Page 3 of 3 < 1 2 3




The Byzantine Forum provides message boards for discussions focusing on Eastern Christianity (though discussions of other topics are welcome). The views expressed herein are those of the participants and may or may not reflect the teachings of the Byzantine Catholic or any other Church. The Byzantine Forum and the www.byzcath.org site exist to help build up the Church but are unofficial, have no connection with any Church entity, and should not be looked to as a source for official information for any Church. Contents copyright - 1996-2012. All rights reserved.