It may seem an odd forum in which to post this, but it concerns the pastoral care of Coptic Catholic communities in the diaspora.

An August article from the newspaper of the Nashville Latin Diocese, on the occasion of Patriarch Antonios' visit to the community there.

Nashville’s Coptic Catholics celebrate visit by patriarch

Many years,

Neil

Just appoint one, and tell Rome about it . . .later. Nothing will happen. I guarantee it.

Perhaps they're concerned with honoring the wishes and norms of the community that is hosting them. The cardinal certainly mentioned his gratitude for their assistance.

Yes, the local Coptic Catholic community should be grateful - but their gratitude ought not include exclusion of a married priest from serving their community. I should hope their host community would not condition their support by obliging the Copts to set aside their tradition of married clergy.

"The wheels on the bus go round and round...." Sigh, those who forget the past are condemned to repeat its errors.

Frankly, when I read stuff like this,I tend to sigh, think about the struggles of my grandparents and give a nod to the Orthodox hard-liners. For all of the mutual understanding and attempts to reduce the issues which separate us by commissions etc... I read things like this and I honestly don't know what to say.

This in the face of the reality that the BCC and UGCC churches here are quietly using married clergy.

That should not matter. What a handful of Copts do will not affect celibacy among the Latin clergy--especially as the married Latin priests in this country (100+ and rising) outnumber all the Eastern Catholic priests in any Eastern Catholic jurisdiction.

Don't forget the Melkites, who started it all--and are not that quiet about it. In reading the first Encyclical of Archbishop Nicholas, our pastor amplified on the Archbishop's statement, "We need priests" by adding, "This includes married men, too. Look at Father Ephrem, who has a wife and family. Being married does not exclude you from becoming a priest".

I think I would die of shock to hear such words from the mouth of a Ruthenian priest speaking from the Ambo.

Sorry, I do forget about you Melkites, as we have none nearby.

And I have to say that if the new pastor at Holy Spirit BCC here in Binghamton would say anything to the contrary, his people would think him nuts. (He's married, with a Pani and a son.)

By the way, my son, an Orthodox seminarian, recently attended the Presov concert. He is knowledgeable about the history of the schisms and his grandparents etc... He asked me a great question.

How can you give an HONEST answer to a young American Greek Catholic boy with a vocation about celibacy when, with his own eyes he sees Seminarians of the same faith from Europe NOT confronted with this problem and he sees, hears and learns from married, albeit of European origin, priests in his own home parish? How do you convince such a boy that this is neither arbitrary or defensible in the historical context of the unions and the concept of 'sui juris' and local church canons? I had no answer for my son, I suggested he ask a BCC priest next time he struck up a conversation with him. Any takers?

I can speak to the local community. The Latin diocese of Nashville has been very open to accommodating St. Nicholas Ukrainian Greek Catholic mission here, and we are served entirely by married clergy. To my knowledge there has never been a complaint or concern about the fact that the clergy that fly/drive into Nashville are married. As an additional data point, there is at least one married Latin priest in the diocese of Nashville, maybe more.

Furthermore the current pastor (Fr. David Perkin) was the pastor when St. Nicholas regularly met at that Church (St. Patrick's), and he seemed to get along great with the married clergy, and even concelebrated once or twice. I highly doubt it is a parish issue either.

In short, I highly doubt the issues, whatever they are, stem from the Nashville community.

Justin

That is great to hear. Thanks!

Shlomo Lkhoolkhoon,

Why do the Copts not have an Exarch now. If they have 5 parishes here in the U.S. and a couple in Canada. They have the same numbers as the Syriac Catholic do who have an Eparchy. One of the weaknesses with our Churches is that we wait for Rome's permission to organize and serve our people. It should be even with one Church we should have exarchs and eparchs to serve our people.

Fush BaShlomo Lkhoolkhoon,
Yuhannon

Stuart,

Dying to read this encyclical! Where can we find it?!

Then for whatever reason, the limitation must be self imposed.

It was read from the Ambo and then distributed after Liturgy last Sunday. It is not yet up on the website for the Eparchy of Newton. Wait a week or so.

Let's keep a few things in mind. Not that I particularly want to do so, but reality is reality ...

Neither the Diocese of Nashville nor any other Latin diocese in the US has any say over whether a UGCC mission set up w/in its georgraphic bounds is served by a married or celibate priest. If a US-based eparch sees a need to establish a mission for his faithful, he advises the local Latin hierarch of his intent. End of story.

When the mission involved is that of a Church w/o a jurisdiction in the US - Copts, Ethiopians, Italo-Greek Albanians, Russians, or even Malankara (an exarch lacks the authority of an eparch), the Latin bishop does have a say - b/c, whether we like it or not, that mission is canonically responsible to him and the priest assigned to it, on loan or whatever, will be his responsibility. And, I offer that comment w/ no intention of disparaging the Bishop of Nashville who, from all reports, is supportive of this community, as he has been of others before it.

However, I've no doubt that - if the question arose - he would likely consider it politic to have the blessing of higher authority to accept such a priest into his jurisdiction - because it would be into his jurisdiction - not the Patriarch's.

Frankly, the Copts could probably import a married priest from the Old Country and have no issue b/c Cum Data Fuerit was not ever applicable to them specifically, even if it were able to be argued that it was still in force. However, I doubt that there are a lot of married Coptic priests in Egypt who are prepared or able to be transplanted w/ family in tow. Note that what HB would like to do is ordain a married Copt already living here - someone who has the language skills and a way to support his family and that is what he feels that he cannot do.

Why? Who knows? Maybe b/c he has been told that he cannot do so - and it is no secret that the Patriarchs and hierarchs of the Oriental Churches, with all due respect, are more beholden to Rome than their Byzantine counterparts. It is all well and good for those here who do not have to function in that role to opine on what the incumbents should or should not do - but, none of us is privy to why they think or do or say what they do. So, ...

It's also rather easy to say 'just appoint one' - it smacks of the SSPX and would likely see the same consequences. So, let's be realistic. This is a Church of 163,000 - only the Syriacs have fewer faithful among the patriarchal Churches and among the non-patriarchal Byzantine Churches only the Greeks, Croats, Italo-Albanians, and Albanians (the latter of whom will likely be of blessed memory in the next 50 years) have less.

Shawn,

The Copts do not have 5 parishes in the US - they have 2 parishes: Resurrection in Brooklyn; and, St Mary's in LA.

There are 3 - perhaps 4, 'communities'. Last I was able to determine, those in NJ are served by Brooklyn - to which they travel for Divine Liturgy - they do not have any services on their home ground. The priest from Brooklyn travels to Nashville once every two to three months to serve a Divine Liturgy.

I'm still trying to track down the reference made to Boston. Although I won't be surprised to find a community here, as there is a large Coptic Orthodox community with a couple of parishes, I am unaware of any Coptic Catholic mission or parish. I suspect that the priest from Resurrection in Brooklyn is, likewise, traveling here once every two or three months.

At the time of the last Patriarchal visit to the US, Chicago was one of the stops and a plea was made for a priest to be sent. My recollection is that the Patriarch indicated that he was unable to do so, but offered no detail. I think it is telling that Chicago was not referenced this time as being one of the major US locations for Catholic Copts, suggesting that the community may have been subsumed into the Coptic Orthodox Church.

So, the short of it is that there are 4 parishes between the US and Canada - barely less than the Syriacs? Yes, but it took the Syriacs and Armenians a century before they had a hierarch in the US. It took the Melkites and Maronites 75 years to do so. All of them lost faithful in that time - to the Orthodox Churches, to the Latins, to the Protestants, even to one another (there are significant numbers of persons with historically Syriac surnames in Melkite parishes to this day).

Will the Copts do likewise? Yes. Have they? I am sure they have. The Ethiopians and Eritreans certainly have - and the latter also have no hierarch, despite having more parishes/missions and decidely more communities in the US and Canada than the Copts, Syriacs, or Armenians.

Many years,

Neil