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#370958 - 10/28/11 08:55 AM
Lithuania Latin or Eastern Catholic?
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Member
Registered: 02/10/10
Posts: 151
Loc: Dallas (McKinney), TX
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Just wondering If my Catholic ancestors that came over from Lithuania in the early 20th century were Latin or Eastern. From what i've read seems Latin catholic Either way does anyone know where I might find some info on catholic traditions from the "old country"?
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#370961 - 10/28/11 10:27 AM
Re: Lithuania Latin or Eastern Catholic?
[Re: Dave in McKinney]
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Member
Registered: 05/07/09
Posts: 1090
Loc: Texas/USA
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Being the last nation in Europe to accept Christianity, Lithuania was primarily evangelised by German missionaries & thus became Latin Catholics. It's the faith most Lithuanians profess today altho there are numerous Lutherans and Russian Orthodox. During the Nazi occupation, almost all the Jews were deported and killed. Vilnius used to be called "the Jerusalem of Europe". A good place to start looking into Catholicism in Lituania is http://katalikai.lt/The site has A LOT of links to other Lithuanian Catholic sites. Alas! much of the info. is in Lithuanian altho several sites offer English-language pages... Do searches on: the Hill of Crosses; Shrine of Our Lady of Siluva, Shrine of Our Lady at the Gates of Dawn and the Divine Mercy Shrine in Vilnius.
Edited by sielos ilgesys (10/28/11 10:31 AM)
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#370962 - 10/28/11 10:42 AM
Re: Lithuania Latin or Eastern Catholic?
[Re: Dave in McKinney]
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Member
Registered: 11/09/01
Posts: 6018
Loc: Falls Church, VA
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If your ancestors were Catholic from present-day Lithuania, then the overwhelming odds are they were Latin. But the borders of Lithuania have been quite fluid over the centuries, and the principality of Lithuania once included Poland, which in turn included large parts of what we now call Ukraine. One reason for the Union of Brest was the expansion of Poland-Lithuania well into what is now Russia, leaving large numbers of Orthodox stranded in nominally Catholic territory, where they were subject to legal, social and economic disabilities. Unable to appeal either to Moscow (at war with Poland), or to Constantinople (under Turkish domination), the Kyivan bishops turned to Rome as the only authority that could protect them. Their entry into communion was highly pragmatic and in no way was intended to surrender their identity as Orthodox Christians. It did not turn out that way, though.
The best way to find out about your ancestors is to identify the city or village whence they came, and then to determine under whose jurisdiction it fell in 1596. If not part of Muscovy at that time, then in all likelihood they were Roman Catholics.
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#370967 - 10/28/11 11:14 AM
Re: Lithuania Latin or Eastern Catholic?
[Re: StuartK]
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Member
Registered: 02/10/10
Posts: 151
Loc: Dallas (McKinney), TX
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I don't think anyone knows much. There doesn't appear to have been much in the way of keeping of traditions from Lithuania for some reason. They were very poor evidently, and there may be more to the story... but most all have passed away, those that are left don't talk about it and assimilated into American culture with no trace of their heritage.
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#370969 - 10/28/11 11:33 AM
Re: Lithuania Latin or Eastern Catholic?
[Re: Dave in McKinney]
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Member
Registered: 05/07/09
Posts: 1090
Loc: Texas/USA
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Please re-think the ideas in your last post. Occupations by foreign powers and warfare on Lithuanian territory have indeed harmed record-keeping but did not do away with it altogether. The south side of Chicago is positively swarming with Lituanians, both those who came decades ago and newly-arrived immigrants. There are many institutions that cater to their needs. A visit to http://www.lithuanian-american.org/ might provide pleasantly surprising information. We ain't nowhere near died out!
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#370970 - 10/28/11 12:01 PM
Re: Lithuania Latin or Eastern Catholic?
[Re: sielos ilgesys]
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Member
Registered: 02/10/10
Posts: 151
Loc: Dallas (McKinney), TX
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Thank you for all the info. The story of Our Lady of Siluva is especially timely.
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#371001 - 10/29/11 08:24 AM
Re: Lithuania Latin or Eastern Catholic?
[Re: Dave in McKinney]
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Member
Registered: 02/20/03
Posts: 2206
Loc: Illinois
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The South Side of Chicago hasn't been swarming with Lithuanians for decades now. Most have moved to the Southwest suburbs and Lemont, leaving barely a trace of there once significant presence in places like Bridgeport, the Back of the Yards, Pilsen, Brighton Park, and Chicago Lawn.
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#371022 - 10/29/11 03:59 PM
Re: Lithuania Latin or Eastern Catholic?
[Re: Dave in McKinney]
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Member
Registered: 11/09/01
Posts: 6018
Loc: Falls Church, VA
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Ethnically distinct, the Poles and Lithuanians shared a common culture and government for several hundred years, so no wonder their customs are similar.
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#371031 - 10/29/11 11:50 PM
Re: Lithuania Latin or Eastern Catholic?
[Re: StuartK]
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Member
Registered: 05/07/09
Posts: 1090
Loc: Texas/USA
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The respective languages are almost totally different to each other. They're both Indo-European and that's about it. Baltic languages do not sound AT ALL Slavic because they ain't.
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#371032 - 10/29/11 11:55 PM
Re: Lithuania Latin or Eastern Catholic?
[Re: Paul B]
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Member
Registered: 05/07/09
Posts: 1090
Loc: Texas/USA
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I had to have my nose surgically re-built because in the 7th. grade I got hit in the face with a hockey puck. KA-WHAM! I can't recall what my nose looked like before then. Old pictures of me are also unclear on that point.
Maybe the Lithuanian turned-up nose develops in adulthood...or only among the Samogitians.
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#371033 - 10/30/11 12:11 AM
Re: Lithuania Latin or Eastern Catholic?
[Re: Dave in McKinney]
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Member
Registered: 11/09/01
Posts: 6018
Loc: Falls Church, VA
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That is true. But Poland-Lithuania was always a polyglot kingdom (almost a pocket empire) that included Poles, Lithuanians, Letts, Eastern Slavs and Germans. Since all were under common governance, and all had to rub shoulders with each other, cultural cross-polination was inevitable over the generations. Of course, with the large-scale displacements of population undertaken by Stalin, a lot of that has been lost.
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#371059 - 10/30/11 11:45 PM
Re: Lithuania Latin or Eastern Catholic?
[Re: Yuhannon]
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Member
Registered: 05/07/09
Posts: 1090
Loc: Texas/USA
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I'm not 100% certain but I believe Bishop Baltakis is retired...a more up-to-date site on pastoral ministry to Lithuanian (Roman) Catholics living outside Lithuania might be: http://www.lietuviai.ca/sielovada/index.php some of it is in English...there are some colourful pictures...
Edited by sielos ilgesys (10/30/11 11:47 PM)
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#371060 - 10/31/11 12:15 AM
Re: Lithuania Latin or Eastern Catholic?
[Re: sielos ilgesys]
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Global Moderator
Member
Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 8894
Loc: Massachusetts
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I'm not 100% certain but I believe Bishop Baltakis is retired... Yes, he is. At almost 90 yrs of age, he has returned to Lithuania. Monsignor Putrimas, whose name appears in Shawn's post is now (I believe his correct title is) Delegate of the Lithuanian Catholic Bishop's Conference to Lithuanians Outside of Lithuania. I strongly suspect that, with the changes that occurred in the governments of the former Communist states, that there will be fewer, if any, Vatican appointments of bishops for ________ outside of ________, as their former purpose is no longer seen as essential. Many years, Neil
_________________________
"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."
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#371061 - 10/31/11 12:19 AM
Re: Lithuania Latin or Eastern Catholic?
[Re: Dave in McKinney]
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Global Moderator
Member
Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 8894
Loc: Massachusetts
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Dave,
There was a very comprehensive 3 volume work authored back in the '90s by a Lithuanian priest from here in Massachusetts. Bishop Paul commissioned him to undertake it as a detailed history of the Lithuanian Catholics in the US. If you're interested, I think I can track down the title and a purchase site.
Many years,
Neil
_________________________
"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."
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#371069 - 10/31/11 11:11 AM
Re: Lithuania Latin or Eastern Catholic?
[Re: Dave in McKinney]
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Member
Registered: 11/09/01
Posts: 6018
Loc: Falls Church, VA
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You might want to check with the Lithuanian Global Genealogy Society . Such sites are often quite good at providing information not only about individuals, but about the region, and even villages where people were born. Catholic village, Catholic ancestor; Protestant village, Protestant ancestor; Orthodox village, Orthodox ancestor; Jewish village, Jewish ancestor.
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