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#371528 - 11/12/11 12:13 PM Re: Metropolitan Hilarion Accuses West of Leaving Egypt Christians in [Re: StuartK]
JDC Offline
Member

Registered: 01/27/11
Posts: 351
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: StuartK
If you are a Jew, it is not quite so obvious that Jesus was the Messiah as it is to recognize an automobile as an automobile.


No, I guess not. The man of my analogy is Rabbinic Judaism itself, more than any individual Jew. In the case of individuals, I assume goodwill. Most individuals are doing the best they can manage, limited by laziness and stupidity. I certainly am.

A lot of modern Christians find it uncomfortable to apply phrases like "false religion" to modern Judaism because they assume that Judaism of today is exactly the religion practised by the Blessed Virgin before the birth of Christ, as if modern Jews were riding right along with Jesus and St. Peter and just missed their bus stop. Well, it's not the same Judaism. It's a religion founded on the old but in opposition to the true faith.

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#371539 - 11/12/11 02:38 PM Re: Metropolitan Hilarion Accuses West of Leaving Egypt Christians in [Re: Slavipodvizhnik]
StuartK Online   content
Member

Registered: 11/09/01
Posts: 6018
Loc: Falls Church, VA
You grossly oversimplify.

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#371540 - 11/12/11 02:41 PM Re: Metropolitan Hilarion Accuses West of Leaving Egypt Christians in [Re: StuartK]
JDC Offline
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Registered: 01/27/11
Posts: 351
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: StuartK
You grossly oversimplify.


Rather, I simplify in moderation. And, what? you don't?

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#371583 - 11/12/11 10:17 PM Re: Metropolitan Hilarion Accuses West of Leaving Egypt Christians in [Re: Slavipodvizhnik]
StuartK Online   content
Member

Registered: 11/09/01
Posts: 6018
Loc: Falls Church, VA
No, in this case, I think you do a disservice to Judaism, both the Second Temple variety, the rabbinical variety and even the contemporary variety.

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#371588 - 11/12/11 11:27 PM Re: Metropolitan Hilarion Accuses West of Leaving Egypt Christians in [Re: Slavipodvizhnik]
JDC Offline
Member

Registered: 01/27/11
Posts: 351
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Okay, so fill me in. I'm all ears.

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#371596 - 11/13/11 01:37 AM Re: Metropolitan Hilarion Accuses West of Leaving Egypt Christians in [Re: sielos ilgesys]
Apotheoun Offline
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Registered: 03/25/05
Posts: 2359
Loc: SF Bay Area, CA
Originally Posted By: sielos ilgesys
Judaism is most certainly NOT a false religion - it's just incomplete.

That is an interesting point of view, but I do not accept it as legitimate. Just as I do not believe that Arianism or Islam are simply incomplete but are instead in error, so I also hold that Rabbinic Judaism is a false man-made religion. Salvation comes through the faith of Christ alone, and the worship of the Holy Trinity.

As I see it - to put it succinctly - Rabbinic Judaism lacks Christ, and as scripture says, "No one who denies the Son has the Father." (1 John 2:23)

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#371597 - 11/13/11 01:39 AM Re: Metropolitan Hilarion Accuses West of Leaving Egypt Christians in [Re: Slavipodvizhnik]
Apotheoun Offline
Member

Registered: 03/25/05
Posts: 2359
Loc: SF Bay Area, CA
Quite honestly, I would convert to Rabbinic Judaism if I thought it was a valid religion.

The question to ask is this: Is Jesus the Christ?

I believe He is and so I am a Christian. Christ is the sole savior of mankind, for as He said: "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but by me."

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#371621 - 11/13/11 03:17 PM Re: Metropolitan Hilarion Accuses West of Leaving Egypt Christians in [Re: Slavipodvizhnik]
StuartK Online   content
Member

Registered: 11/09/01
Posts: 6018
Loc: Falls Church, VA
But, if you are a serious (i.e., orthodox) Jew, relying on two millennia of Jewish scriptural exegesis, as well as the rabbinical commentaries of the Talmud, you would have trouble coming to that conclusion, in the same way that most of Jesus' Jewish contemporaries did. It was the sincere wish of St. Paul that the Jews would accept Jesus of Nazareth as the Messiah, but they did not, not in his lifetime, and not since. But the Church recognizes the validity of the Old Covenant, rejects supersessionism, and believes that the Jews will be reconciled to Christ at the Parousia.

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