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"Melkites to Ordain Married Men in US" #371494
11/12/11 02:53 AM
11/12/11 02:53 AM
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Jaya Offline OP
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Is this a new development? If not, why is it being reported as one?

I was under the impression that the Melkites had already been ordaining married men to the priesthood in the US for awhile.

http://www.catholic.org/vocations/story.php?id=43626

Re: "Melkites to Ordain Married Men in US" [Re: Jaya] #371499
11/12/11 03:33 AM
11/12/11 03:33 AM
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StuartK Offline
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The article is rather full of misconceptions, misunderstandings, misstatements, and outright fabrications. In other words, it's par for the course. The only thing new about Sayedna Nicholas' statement is it makes official the de facto practice of the Melkite Church since the 1990s.

Re: "Melkites to Ordain Married Men in US" [Re: StuartK] #371503
11/12/11 03:53 AM
11/12/11 03:53 AM
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Jaya Offline OP
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You confirmed my suspicions. Not being Melkite, however, I wasn't sure.

Re: "Melkites to Ordain Married Men in US" [Re: Jaya] #371510
11/12/11 06:30 AM
11/12/11 06:30 AM
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Irish Melkite Offline
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Originally Posted by StuartK
The article is rather full of misconceptions, misunderstandings, misstatements, and outright fabrications. In other words, it's par for the course. The only thing new about Sayedna Nicholas' statement is it makes official the de facto practice of the Melkite Church since the 1990s.


Stuart,

Your phrasing is harsh and inaccurate.

The phrasing of the piece is a bit misleading (only in terms of not having all the details of the who, where, when, why, and how of those married priests currently serving in the Eparchy).

It's just been pointed out to me that the particular piece linked is not the blog which I thought it to be - however, the piece is pretty obviously based on that presented in the blog. And, the blog's author is both a long-time close friend of mine and a respected member of this forum whom neither I (nor anyone who knows him) would ever suggest to be anything other than forthright.

The history is this ... The Melkites first ordained a married man to the presbyterate - in the US - when Bishop John (Elya) ordained Deacon Andre (St Germaine) on Christmas Eve 1996.

Additionally, we have married priests serving in the Eparchy who went to the Middle East, were ordained there, and subsequently returned to serve here (our practice for a long, long time). We also have: married clergy who emigrated here from the Old Country; married clergy who came to us from the Orthodox Church; a priest (Father Archpriest Daniel (Munn), of blessed memory) who was a married Anglican priest prior to conversion and was subsequently reordained; and married men who were ordained to the presbyterate in Canada and subsequently returned to the US to serve (and whose faculties Rome did indeed briefly suspend - though I don't recollect that anyone cared). Besides me, there is at least one other member of this forum who can attest to the Canadian saga.

However, to the best of my recollection (and, if you can name one, please do), we have not had any married men enter into seminary training in the US and be ordained to the presbyterate in the US.

To quote Bishop Nicholas "The Deacon Formation Program is a good program; however it is not a backdoor to the priesthood."

To date, those married men who have been ordained have come from the ranks of the married diaconate. What Sayedna Nicholas said is that the time has come to accept married men into the seminary with the idea that they will advance to priestly ordination.

The biggest obstacle is, frankly, that of the economics involved in doing so, as well as the finances involved in subsequent parish support of a priestly family. Offhand, I don't believe that any of our current married priests have young children - a growing family - to support. With one exception - a priest who came to us from the Antiochians - those I can think of are either childless or their children were in adulthood when the priests came to us.

Many years,

Neil

Addendum - the quoted text from Bishop Nicholas is from the speech he gave at the banquet following his enthronement.

Last edited by Irish Melkite; 11/12/11 07:16 AM. Reason: italicized comment

"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."
Re: "Melkites to Ordain Married Men in US" [Re: Irish Melkite] #371515
11/12/11 11:49 AM
11/12/11 11:49 AM
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Quote
Stuart,

Your phrasing is harsh and inaccurate.



That shouldn't surprise anyone... smirk

Thank you Neil, I think you put things into perspective for those of us who do not follow the Melkites as closely as some other jursidictions.

Many years Sayedna Nicholas!

Chris

Re: "Melkites to Ordain Married Men in US" [Re: Jaya] #371518
11/12/11 12:49 PM
11/12/11 12:49 PM
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Father Ephrem Handel has two children in their early teens. They were younger when he was first ordained.

Re: "Melkites to Ordain Married Men in US" [Re: Irish Melkite] #371526
11/12/11 04:48 PM
11/12/11 04:48 PM
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Neil,

Thank you for the additional information, clarifying the history, as well as the current situation. That was very helpful.

Re: "Melkites to Ordain Married Men in US" [Re: Jaya] #371532
11/12/11 05:39 PM
11/12/11 05:39 PM
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Yes, many years to Bishop Nicholas!

Just to clarify, about how many married deacons have been ordained to the priesthood in the US Melkite Church since Fr. Andre's ordination in 1996?

I'm not asking for names, just an approximate number. Thanks!



Last edited by DTBrown; 11/12/11 05:50 PM.
Re: "Melkites to Ordain Married Men in US" [Re: Jaya] #371538
11/12/11 07:37 PM
11/12/11 07:37 PM
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Holy Transfiguration presently has four married deacons. Protodeacon Paul, who reposed a couple of years ago, was also married. We presently have a married subdeacon, who no doubt will be elevated in his turn.

Re: "Melkites to Ordain Married Men in US" [Re: StuartK] #371541
11/12/11 07:43 PM
11/12/11 07:43 PM
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Thanks, Stuart. Did you mean these 4 married deacons had been ordained as priests too? Or, did I misunderstand?

I was curious how many married deacons have been ordained as priests in the US Melkite Church since Fr. Andre's ordination in 1996?

Re: "Melkites to Ordain Married Men in US" [Re: Jaya] #371544
11/12/11 08:00 PM
11/12/11 08:00 PM
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No. We have one married priest, two celibate priests, four married deacons (at least two of whom could be potential presbyters), one deceased married protodeacon, one married subdeacon who will probably be elevated to deacon in the next couple of years, plus two ordained readers, one of whom may be on the diaconal track. Our married priest was ordained and served as a deacon at the parish for several years before being ordained to the presbyterate.

As you can see, we don't follow Bishop Andrew (Pataki)'s rule that a parish can only have two deacons.

Re: "Melkites to Ordain Married Men in US" [Re: StuartK] #371546
11/12/11 08:16 PM
11/12/11 08:16 PM
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Thanks for the info on Transfiguration. I'm assuming your married priest was ordained there at Transfiguration.

Any estimates on how many other married deacons have been ordained to the priesthood in the US Melkite Church since Fr. Andre's ordination in 1996?

Last edited by DTBrown; 11/12/11 08:22 PM.
Re: "Melkites to Ordain Married Men in US" [Re: StuartK] #371549
11/12/11 08:24 PM
11/12/11 08:24 PM
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Originally Posted by StuartK
No. We have one married priest, two celibate priests, four married deacons (at least two of whom could be potential presbyters), one deceased married protodeacon, one married subdeacon who will probably be elevated to deacon in the next couple of years, plus two ordained readers, one of whom may be on the diaconal track. Our married priest was ordained and served as a deacon at the parish for several years before being ordained to the presbyterate.

As you can see, we don't follow Bishop Andrew (Pataki)'s rule that a parish can only have two deacons.


Stuart,

Your enumeration doesn't include Deacon Nicholas (Rosov), of blessed memory, husband of our beloved sister, friend, and fellow forumite, Alicia/Penthaetria.

Many years,

Neil


"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."
Re: "Melkites to Ordain Married Men in US" [Re: StuartK] #371550
11/12/11 08:24 PM
11/12/11 08:24 PM
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Originally Posted by StuartK
Holy Transfiguration presently has four married deacons. Protodeacon Paul, who reposed a couple of years ago, was also married. We presently have a married subdeacon, who no doubt will be elevated in his turn.


Four deacons?! shocked My parish(UGCC)doesn't even have one : (. That is pretty incredible, God has truly blessed your parish.

Re: "Melkites to Ordain Married Men in US" [Re: Irish Melkite] #371553
11/12/11 08:39 PM
11/12/11 08:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Irish Melkite
Originally Posted by StuartK
No. We have one married priest, two celibate priests, four married deacons (at least two of whom could be potential presbyters), one deceased married protodeacon, one married subdeacon who will probably be elevated to deacon in the next couple of years, plus two ordained readers, one of whom may be on the diaconal track. Our married priest was ordained and served as a deacon at the parish for several years before being ordained to the presbyterate.

As you can see, we don't follow Bishop Andrew (Pataki)'s rule that a parish can only have two deacons.


Stuart,

Your enumeration doesn't include Deacon Nicholas (Rosov), of blessed memory, husband of our beloved sister, friend, and fellow forumite, Alicia/Penthaetria.

Many years,

Neil
Thank you, Neil, for remembering him. I wasn't going to say anything ...

Fr. Ephrem went back to the old country to be ordained to the priesthood.

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