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#373209 - 12/18/11 06:02 PM
Re: St. Alexis: a dilemma
[Re: Thessalonius Monk]
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Member
Registered: 11/09/01
Posts: 6018
Loc: Falls Church, VA
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Whatever ones specific view, the Papacy is undeniable based on Scripture and Tradition. Horsepuck. There is no way you can use the Vincentian canon to arrive at the modern Papacy. Nor for a dozen other doctrines claimed by the Catholic Church to be "dogmatic". It is a lamentable tendency of the Latin Church to think of itself in universal terms despite its rather parochial outlook on life.
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#373238 - 12/19/11 11:25 AM
Re: St. Alexis: a dilemma
[Re: StuartK]
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Member
Registered: 05/22/07
Posts: 1515
Loc: MD
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Whatever ones specific view, the Papacy is undeniable based on Scripture and Tradition. Horsepuck. There is no way you can use the Vincentian canon to arrive at the modern Papacy. Nor for a dozen other doctrines claimed by the Catholic Church to be "dogmatic". It is a lamentable tendency of the Latin Church to think of itself in universal terms despite its rather parochial outlook on life. Quite a curious post. For the record, and to explain, the two separate points I actually made: 1. Way at the beginning: the papacy in relation to other ecclesial entities. ... not even the Papacy itself,... It is misleading to place the Papacy with the others. Whatever ones specific view, the Papacy is undeniable based on Scripture and Tradition. Interpretations differ. The Catholic Church has a well-known theological position. 2. Way at the end: organic development (of "Organic institutions") in relation to Lerins' dictum with the focus on the Eucharist. ...and like all organisms, they develop and evolve in response to real needs. But in such a way that: "Moreover, in the Catholic Church itself, all possible care must be taken, that we hold that faith which has been believed everywhere, always, by all." (In ipsa item Catholica Ecclesia magnopere curandum est ut id teneamus quod ubique, quod semper, quod ab omnibus creditum est.)[St. Vincent of Lerins, A.D. 434]. And that faith is the faith within us, what we do, who we are: the Eucharist is the great discriminator in ecclesiology. So.......... Horsepuck. There is no way you can use the Vincentian canon to arrive at the modern Papacy. I didn't in what I posted but, since you point it out, it certainly does apply (another topic, another thread).
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#373241 - 12/19/11 12:23 PM
Re: St. Alexis: a dilemma
[Re: ajk]
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Member
Registered: 05/01/09
Posts: 960
Loc: Upstate New York
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It was my understanding that Bishop Dzubay's return to Catholicism was prompted by the failure of the Russian dominated North American precursor to the 'Metropolia' to keep its promises to him regarding Rusyn traditions and his pastoral authority as Bishop rather than as a result of any 'epiphany' regarding Western ecclesiology. However, we shall not know the answer to that prior to the final judgment.
His story does reflect the tortured path our people were led down by their temporal overseers from Budapest, Vienna, Moscow and elsewhere over the centuries.
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#373243 - 12/19/11 12:57 PM
Re: St. Alexis: a dilemma
[Re: DMD]
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Member
Registered: 05/22/07
Posts: 1515
Loc: MD
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...rather than as a result of any 'epiphany' regarding Western ecclesiology. However, we shall not know the answer to that prior to the final judgment. It is my hope and intention that we are not talking about "Western ecclesiology" but one that is "fundamental" (as I put it) to East and West. To characterize a return to the Catholic Church automatically as an "'epiphany' regarding Western ecclesiology" is a stereotype (even with a Parousia disclaimer) that ends dialog: Catholic=Western, end of discussion.
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