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#374112 - 01/11/12 06:09 PM
Post-Schism Dogmas
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Junior Member
Registered: 07/28/11
Posts: 3
Loc: California, USA
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Dear all,
I'm sure this has been asked many times, and I'm sorry if this is a sensitive topic, but I'm struggling to find a precise answer. What is the obligation of an Eastern Catholic in accepting Post-Schism Dogmas (e.g., Immaculate Conception)?
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#374116 - 01/11/12 07:15 PM
Re: Post-Schism Dogmas
[Re: MengTzu]
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Member
Registered: 12/10/01
Posts: 954
Loc: Sunny California
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MengTzu, Welcome! As theophan mentioned, you will most likely get various answers to your question, but I am sure you would want what the magisterium officially teaches. So, please read the motu proio by Blessed John Paul II, Ad Tuendam Fidem.
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#374123 - 01/11/12 08:22 PM
Re: Post-Schism Dogmas
[Re: MengTzu]
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Member
Registered: 11/03/01
Posts: 1025
Loc: Private
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Short answer: a Catholic is a Catholic. Greek Catholics officially accept all the post-schism defined doctrines.
Rank-and-file ethnic Greek Catholics: 'We're the same.'
Nuance of that: the high-church Greek Catholics who are as Orthodox as can be, like Rome wants, but are loyal Catholics explain those doctrines in as Byzantine a way as possible. Good ecumenical work? (Small minority of Greek Catholics; usually not ethnic; Roman Riters who've come over.)
The 'Orthodox in communion with Rome' look like the high-church Greek Catholics but say they don't really follow Rome where it differs from the Orthodox. (Even smaller minority than the high-church Greek Catholics.)
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#374124 - 01/11/12 08:24 PM
Re: Post-Schism Dogmas
[Re: MengTzu]
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Member
Registered: 11/09/01
Posts: 6018
Loc: Falls Church, VA
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The Young Fogey continually makes the mistake of thinking that all Greek Catholics are Ruthenians or Ruthenian-like. I suggest he come visit some of my Melkite brethren to get a somewhat different perspective.
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#374127 - 01/11/12 08:32 PM
Re: Post-Schism Dogmas
[Re: StuartK]
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Member
Registered: 11/03/01
Posts: 1025
Loc: Private
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Every Ukrainian Catholic I've known in 30 years is like that. You have a point that the Melkites, from the ecclesiastically fluid Syria, might be more easygoing about those doctrines. (Then again so are ethnic Bad Catholics everywhere: they don't know or don't care but don't intend to defy the church.) I've been to Transfiguration, McLean, and liked it.
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#374130 - 01/11/12 09:41 PM
Re: Post-Schism Dogmas
[Re: MengTzu]
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Member
Registered: 07/25/08
Posts: 924
Loc: SF Bay, CA USA
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Dear all,
I'm sure this has been asked many times, and I'm sorry if this is a sensitive topic, but I'm struggling to find a precise answer. What is the obligation of an Eastern Catholic in accepting Post-Schism Dogmas (e.g., Immaculate Conception)? Welcome to Bycath Forum! I'm a fan of the interviews Catherine Alexander did several years ago with the monks of Holy Resurrection Monastery on various topics available on Your Word from the Wise. Abbot Nicholas speaks in a basic way on this topic in the interview "Eastern Catholic Theology" PART 1 and PART 2. I recommend also the "Who are Eastern Catholics?" with Fr. Maximos PART 1 and PART 2. In each segment if you click on the "Show More" link below the video you can see a list of all the questions Catherine asks and the monks respond to in that particular video.
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#374158 - 01/12/12 01:04 PM
Re: Post-Schism Dogmas
[Re: griego catolico]
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Member
Registered: 09/01/08
Posts: 122
Loc: USA
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I've never read this before - thanks for posting. An interesting excerpt: B) Canon 598 of the Code of Canons of the Eastern Churches will now have two paragraphs: the first will present the text of the existing canon and the second will contain a new text. Thus canon 598, in its complete form, will read as follows:
Canon 598 – § 1. Those things are to be believed by divine and catholic faith which are contained in the word of God as it has been written or handed down by tradition, that is, in the single deposit of faith entrusted to the Church, and which are at the same time proposed as divinely revealed either by the solemn Magisterium of the Church, or by its ordinary and universal Magisterium, which in fact is manifested by the common adherence of Christ’s faithful under the guidance of the sacred Magisterium. All Christian faithful are therefore bound to avoid any contrary doctrines.
§ 2. Furthermore, each and everything set forth definitively by the Magisterium of the Church regarding teaching on faith and morals must be firmly accepted and held; namely, those things required for the holy keeping and faithful exposition of the deposit of faith; therefore, anyone who rejects propositions which are to be held definitively sets himself against the teaching of the Catholic Church.
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#374162 - 01/12/12 02:15 PM
Re: Post-Schism Dogmas
[Re: MengTzu]
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Junior Member
Registered: 07/28/11
Posts: 3
Loc: California, USA
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Thank you for all the answers. Let me know if the following statement accurately describes the Church's position: Eastern Catholics must accept the substance of these doctrines, although their understanding of them can based on their own theological traditions, which may differ conceptually and linguistically from the Latin theological traditions, in the context of which these doctrines had been defined.
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#374175 - 01/12/12 08:14 PM
Re: Post-Schism Dogmas
[Re: desertman]
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Member
Registered: 12/10/01
Posts: 954
Loc: Sunny California
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My favorite part of his answer: There is no 'Eastern truth' vs 'Western truth'. Truth is one. It may be articulated according to various cultural expressions, but truth is super-cultural. Truth should not be restricted by "party line" positions. We should accept or reject ideas for their worth and not for an artificial attachment to a given "identity." The Church teaches truth. If something is true, it would be absurd to say "Oh, we don't believe that in the East." This seems to be where we get short-circuited in ecumenical "dialogue." All too frequently, such "dialogue" seems to presuppose a relativism where you speak "your truth" and I'll speak "my truth" and we'll just leave it at that. A sort of ecumenical schizophrenia.
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#374176 - 01/12/12 08:14 PM
Re: Post-Schism Dogmas
[Re: Paul B]
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Cantor
Member
Registered: 11/01/05
Posts: 1361
Loc: Connecticut
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Is the Immaculate Conception (that Mary, daughter of Joachim and Anna was conceived without sin) considered heresy by any canonical Orthodox Church?
I can't speak for any canonical Orthodox Church...however, I can't even consider an answer to this unless you define what is meant by "conceived without sin". Based on the countless discussions that have gone on about this I think the definition of what you are asking is important so all are on the same page...
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#374180 - 01/12/12 10:32 PM
Re: Post-Schism Dogmas
[Re: MengTzu]
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Member
Registered: 08/27/08
Posts: 204
Loc: Southeast USA
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Doesn't this discussion, ultimately, lead us to one of the fundamental differences in perspective/theology between East and West - Western Christianity's propensity to categorize and define everything and Eastern Christianity's desire to "let the Mystery be" - esp. if it is an issue undefined by early councils?
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