Orthodox Church in support of Putin: yes to crack down on immigration

by Nina Achmatova
Asia News
1/25/2012

The spokesman for the Patriarchate welcomes the proposal by the presidential candidate to introduce Russian language tests for immigrants and to toughen laws.

More at http://www.asianews.it/news-en/Orthodox-Church-in-support-of-Putin:-yes-to-crack-down-on-immigration-23789.html

One wonders how the Patriarchate would respond if the US did likewise with immigrants from Russia.

{{{yawn}}} So what else is new?: the ROC-MP supports the Russian government, probably to the point of connivance. Any chance there might be precedence for this sort of thing in the not-so-distant past?

Now what DOES surprise me is that there are any voluntary immigrants to Russia. I do, however, know a lot about INVOLUNTARY immigrants there - like some of my distant relatives who, upon the occupation of Lithuania by the Soviets, were "invited" to settle "in the east."

It was an invitation they couldn't refuse.

Actually, we do--Russian immigrants to the United States must apply for and receive a visa. If they wish to work here, they must get a work visa and permit. If they wish to settle here, they must apply for permanent resident status. And if they wish to become citizens, they must learn English and pass the citizenship test. Failure to comply with the law can and usually does result in deportation.

The problem of illegal immigration in Russia is on par with that facing the U.S. along its southwestern border, but is more severe in that (a) most of the Caucasian and Southwest Asian illegals are Muslims; (b) many of them are radicalized Muslims; (c) Most speak little or no Russian; (d) most do not even have a basic education or rudimentary job skills; and (e) the Russian economy is in no shape either to assimilate them or to provide them with the social services they require.

All told, one rather sympathizes with Putin on this issue, though one also wonders where he intends to find people to replace all the babies the Great Russians are not having.

As compared to places like Uzbekistan, Tajikstan, Kazahkstan, Kirgizhstan and the other Stans, life in Russia is good indeed.

What is surprising is how little of Stalin's displaced populations have returned to their native homelands.

"What is surprising is how little of Stalin's deported populations have returned to their native homelands."

You can't return if you've been KILLED. Maybe repatriation in a box is a form of "return" because, if you consult the following site, you'll see some did "return" by that means...

http://genocid.lt

altho a few of my relatives married Russians and voluntarily remained; thus I have distant relatives in both Samara and Penza...I've visited them twice and had a good time.

You can't return if you've been KILLED.

Most weren't killed, as any decent demographic map of Russia and the former Soviet Republics shows. There are little islands of displaced ethnicities all over Central Asia and Siberia. Though mortality was high, not everybody died, and their descendants continue to live in the regions were their parents and grandparents were relocated. During the Soviet era, moving back was well-nigh impossible, given the need for internal passports and living permits. After the collapse of the USSR, many of these people found themselves on the wrong side of the Russian border, and, although Russia has actively solicited the return of ethnic Russians from the former Soviet republics, non-Russians are simply viewed as aliens, which prevents many from returning to their homelands in cases where these are still inside Russia. But many Balts, Caucasians, Poles and other displaced minorities, who could return to their ancestral homelands, have chosen not to do so.

I would take the fact of displaced people not leaving Russia (or any other place they find themselves) for ancestral homelands as evidence of little beyond the ordinary human tendencies to get used to a situation and get on with life.

I don't know from Russia and the Orthodox Church there, so I can't comment.

What I CAN comment on is the way my people were treated when they came to the US looking for a better life.When I finally came to understand how Slavs, generally, and Rusyns in particular were treated I promised myself that I would never allow someone else to dictate to me how I welcomed foreigners to American soil. Here in the States there is a lot of Hate for the Latino-s who come to the US looking for a better life. I can't control how others feel about the situation. For myself, these people are welcome and I would stand with them as they work to make a place for themselves. FWIW.

Best Wishes,

Bruce

You should distinguish between those who come here in accordance with the laws of the land and the regulations governing immigration and residency; and those who ignore and break those laws. The latter show no respect for the country they intend to make their home, and make those who do obey the law look stupid. Moreover, it's not just one law they are breaking, but many.

For instance, if they are working, they must have a social security number. To get one, most illegals engage in identity theft (which often causes considerable legal and financial trouble for those whose identities are stolen). To drive, they need a driver's license, which they obtain with fraudulent documents. The driver's license application includes a sworn, signed statement that the information on the application is true, so the illegal applicant is also guilty of fraud and perjury.

In short, I don't see much hatred for Hispanics in general (and the Hispanic population in my part of Virginia has ballooned in recent years), but much anger at illegal immigrants (and not just Hispanics), much of it from those who went through the trouble of following the legal process, filling out the forms, meeting the requirements and waiting their turn.

I welcome all legal immigrants willing to work hard to make their way in the United States, but a country has a right to secure its borders and to set standards for immigration, and those who do not obey those laws ought not to be welcomed.

Read the Gospel passage appointed for Meatfare Sunday within the context of controversies about immigration into the U.S.: Mt. 25:31-46

I bet a compromise solution to this particular problem can be found; a solution which doesn't present undocumented immigrants in naive and romantic ways; and which is also flexible enough to counter the "one size fits all", black-and-white outlook.

Neither risk-taking, blind leniency nor objective harshness (which runs the risk of depriving the undocumented immigrants of their personhood) are called for.

We're talking about PEOPLE just like you and me here. Overlooking that might not go over well with Jesus.

My solution is strict reciprocity: we will simply adopt Mexico's immigration laws. They can hardly complain about ours, then.

In the best of all possible Worlds, Stuart, I would agree with you. As a former High School teacher, however, I am painfully aware of how institutionalized our Classism, Racism and Economic Elitism is in-grained in our Laws. We Americans know we have a good thing here as do the French, Dutch, Germans, English and other Northern European cultures. We also know that many African, Asian and South American cultures have had to develope with the foot of Western Industry on their neck and with much meddling of Western Governments in their affairs. We Westerners bally-hoo about the level of our Economies and the sophistication of our toys while around the World---- according to UNICEF--- 5000 children die each day from lack of water and of diseases born of consuming fetid water. Do you honestly believe that I can accept that people who see our prosperity in the midst of their terrible poverty make no effort?

In the short time that I have been on this forum I have read many references to "following Jesus" and being "Christian"....and apparently proud of it. Would it not make sense for a person who represents themselves as "Christian" to find reasons TO ACT rather than excuses NOT TO ACT? Thoughts?

Bets Wishes,

Bruce

Good thing I'm not a former high school teacher, and just a modest historian, otherwise I might buy into the nonsense about this, the most classless of societies, having institutionalized classism, racism and economic elitism. Your post does explain why so many of the college students I know have such a distorted view of their own country's history--and world history, for that matter. To quote C.S. Lewis, "What do they teach them in the schools these days?"

Speaking only for myself, Stuart, you may have touched on exactly the issue here---at its core. This is not---IMHO--- a matter of "view" or "opinions". This is a matter of seeing the World clearly for what it is. Fact is that there are injustices and abuses and they are not meant to be bandied about like cocktail chatter, but to be addressed through Courage and Strength of Character.

I believe in a Final Judgement for myself. I believe that when that occurs my Judge will not want to know about "views" and "opinions". I doubt He will want to listen to me whine about how Virtue was inconvenient or that I was told by another to do thus-and-so. I don't remember anywhere in the "Good Samaritan" parable a mention of the G-S having to check things out with the local authorities before he helped the traveler. Likewise, I do not remember Abraham having to produce "travel documents" when he found himself to be a "stranger in a strange land".

Believing in your rationalizations may not make you Right, but it sure won't make you lonely. There are plenty of folks who represent themselves as "christian" and have all the reasons in the World not to conduct themselves that way.

I just don't happen to be one of them, thats all.

Best Wishes,

Bruce