The disciples of Saint Phoibe of Cenchreae in the Armenian Church

1. http://armeniandiaconate.org/photos-5/files/page11-1008-full.html

2.http://armeniandiaconate.org/photos-5/files/page11-1005-full.html

3.http://armeniandiaconate.org/photos-5/files/page11-1004-full.html

4. http://www.hyeetch.nareg.com.au/culture/women42.html
http://www.armenianreporter.am/go/article/2009-09-26-set-aside-for-a-holy-purpose

If I am not wrong there is a deaconess (woman deacon) serving nowdays at the Armenian Patriarchate of Constantinople.

Seta (Simonian)Atamian, first
woman in America to receive the 4 minor orders of the Armenian
Church.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7x_KDC1yo8g

http://saindays.blogspot.com/2007/06/on-ordination-of-woman-acolyte.html

This is fantastic! Did the ministry of deaconess ever fall into disuse in the Armenian Church (say under Latin influence)? To see such a vibrant tradition makes me think that it must have continued to exist at least in some places.

I have a few additional questions about the youtube clip;

1. The male acolyte (?) is not wearing an orarion, but censes at one point. What rank is he? Can all minor orders cense in the Armenian rite?

2. When you say that Seta recieved all four minor orders, what are these? Subdiaconate? Do subdeacons not wear orarions in the Armenian tradition?

It is customary in the Melkite usage for an acolyte to cense the celebrant after the Great Incensation. I assume this also covers the Antiochean and Greek Orthodox. Apparently it is only in the Slavic usage that incensation is limited to the major orders.

Thanks. Interestingly, in the Coptic tradition even deacons (by which I mean actual deacons, not the acolytes that the copts call deacons) cannot cense, only priests and bishops; in fact, there is a rubrical passage which says that the deacon must "carefully carry the censer not swinging it"!

At the Coptic church in Fairfax, at least during Vespers, the deacon does not use a hanging kadilo, but a hand-held table censer. I do not know if this is general practice, or limited to this parish, and whether it is customary, or just something that has evolved by accident--for instance, not having a hanging censer to swing.

Ah that is different; censing with the hand censer is not counted as censing per se, which is one sees women (nuns - and deaconesses with the copts) and laymen do it in the Coptic and Russian traditions).

So I've done some more reading, which has cleared up the four minor orders. I still don't understand the subdeacon aspect of Armenian orders however; and I understand even less something called a stole-bearer, who seems to be like our Russian readers who are blessed to wear a stole.

The thing is, I look in Attwater, and the subdeacon appears to wear a maniple. Is this a Latinism? How do Armenian orthodox stole-bearers and subdeacons wear stoles?

Off-topic, and my apologies, but I want to welcome Francisco back - it's been way too long since we've seen a post by you, my friend. The minute that I saw a thread title in all uppercase letters, I suspected it was you . My prayers that you're well, my brother.

Many years,

Neil

PS - I was thinking about you just the other day, because of the photos you once posted of Constantinople. I'll be sending you a PM because I suspect you might know the answer to a question that I have.

Otsheylnik:

Christ is in our midst!!

The minor orders in the Syriac and Armenian Churches appear to be similar. Here is a link to the Syriac practice. In the link, choose "worship" and then "vestments." Scroll to the bottom to find the minor orders and deacons.

http://sor.cua.edu/index.html

As far as Latin customs go, remember that the Armenians adopted some Latin customs during the period of the Crusades: the bishop's miter, for example. We have a member here who is Armenian and perhaps he will come by to give us an insider's understanding.

Bob

Dear
I thank you so much for your warm words. Tank you, as well, for

Dear Irish Melkite,
I thank you so much for your warm words.
Tank you very much, as well, for joining me in prayer as I asked you all, my dear brothers and sisters in Christ of the Byzantine forum, in my last summer post.
Thanks to the Lord I and the rest of the members of my family are really well. Fortunatelly, as prophet Jeremiah says, "the harvest is finished, and the summer", my particular aestas horribilis, "is gone," and we all are, till the moment, safe and sound. Unfortunately bad times have not finish for so many of our brothers in the hospitals all around the world and for those around them, my thought and my prayers are with them in this moment. Sorry for the strong personal and enigmatic character of this post that has nothing to do with the armenian deaconesses. Waiting for your PM.
Yours in Christ,
Francisco

From: http://armeniandiaconate.org/styled-4/index.html

Holy Orders

There are three major orders in the ranks of the clergy of the Armenian Church; deacon, priest and bishop. Within each of these orders there are ranks or subdivisions. There are also four minor orders of Tbir or Clerk

Deacon
Under the order of deacon we find first the stole bearer (Ourarageer). He is not ordained but given the stole to use while serving in the Church. The stole bearer may serve at the altar, read the litanies and sing. When there is no deacon available he may also read the Gospelsbook. Second, there is the rank of sub-deacon (Geesasargavak) which is conferred by ordination and is a specific rank in the church. Finally, there is the deacon, sometimes called archdeacon (Sargavak), the last rank before priesthood. Only the deacon has the right to present the chalice. We address stole bearers, sub-deacons and deacons as Deeratzou.

Priest
The next order in the church is priest. In the Armenian Church there are two types: the married priest (Kahana) and the celibate priest (Gousagron Kahana). Priests have the right to perform all services and sacraments except ordination. Married priests are usually pastors of parishes and serve the parochial needs. The celibate priesthood has a number of divisions. The first rank of celibate priest is Apegha, which means monk. The celibate then usually receives the rank of Vartabed or doctor of the church. There are fourteen levels of celibate priesthood, the last being Dzayrakouyn. We address married priests as Der Hayr and celibate priests as Hayr Sourp.

Bishop
The third order is that of bishop. The bishop has the right to perform all the services and sacraments including ordination. Under the heading of bishop fall primates and patriarchs. (Unmarried priests may also serve as primates.) The primate is the spiritual leader of a diocese l see. We have many diocese but only two patriarchates, Jerusalem and Constantinople. We address biand a patriarch usually presides over a historicashops as Srpazan Hayr.

Catholicos
Although not technically a separate “ordained” ministry, the highest order in the Armenian Church is Catholicos, the bishop of bishops and Supreme Patriarch and Catholic of of All Armenians. He resides in Holy Etchmiadzin, the Mother See of the Armenian Church. Throughout history we have had more than one Catholicate, but they only exercised local jurisdiction. Of these only the Catholicate of Cilicia. whose center is now in Antelias, Lebanon, has survived. The Catholicos has the special right to consecrate bishops and prepare the Holy Oil (Meuron). We address the Catholicos as Vehapar Der.

So, if I am not wrong, both "stole bearer" (Ourarageer) and "deaocons" (Sargavak) can use "ourar" during the Liturgy (Patarak)and read the Gospel, but only "deacons" (Sargavak) and "deaconesses" (as you can see in one of the pictures) have the right to present the chalice.

From: http://www.armenianchurch.org/index.jsp?sid=1&id=120&pid=30

Minor Orders

One who receives these four minor ranks is known as a Tbir (or clerk). Through the minor orders, the Tbir is conferred special privileges which are the foundation of his service to the church as a participant during the worship services. There are four distinct functions of a Tbir:

Doorkeeper (Trnaban)
Reader (Untertsogh)
Exorcist (Yertm’netsootsich)
Candle Bearer (Momagal)

In receiving these ranks, one becomes an Acolyte (Pokhasats).

The requirements for ordination to the sub-Diaconate are extensive. The candidate should already have received the minor orders before receiving the rank of sub-Deacon. There are some responsibilities that a sub-Deacon may share with a full deacon; however there are limitations to his responsibilities and authority because this office does not reflect the fullness of one who has become a deacon. The sub-Diaconate is a transitional rank between Tbir and full Deacon in which a young man is preparing himself for fuller service to the church.

So, if I am not wrong, we have the Acolyte (Pokhasats), someone who has received the four minor orders (that of the Latin Church, more or less), and is already considered a member of the clergy(Tbir o Dbir), we also have the honorary stole bearer (Ourarageer), the subdeacon (Geesasargavak)and the deacon or archdeacon(Sargavak).