Hey everyone!

The Business world has its management and quality gurus. Sports has its Hall of Fames. Hollywood has its Avenue of Stars.

I was wondering if the Eastern Church (Orthodox and Catholic) had its Hall of Fame (not necessarily saints) who would you vote for?

The person (or persons) can be anyone who has given great witness to the Gospel thru his/her (or their) practice and teachings on Eastern Christian Traditions (not necessarily Byzantine). These people should be LIVING or were living during and/or after the Vatican II Council when the Decree on Eastern Churches was made.

Send in those names and state why you hold him or her (or them) in such high esteem.


Elias


[This message has been edited by Elias (edited 03-09-2000).]

Christ is among us!

Not to appear prejudiced toward my own Melkite Church, but I would have to nominate Patriarch Maximos IV Saigh for his clear voice at Vatican II that led to the recognition of the Eastern Catholic Churches as equals with the Latin Church. Much of the restoration of our Eastern traditions stem from his many interventions at Vatican II. The Latins also have much to thank him for as his voice was one of the leading voices in permitting the Mass to be celebrated in the vernacular.

Fr. Deacon Edward

Without a doubt, Andy Warhol!

Kurt,

Campbell Soup tonight?

Elias

Don't know how active he is in the Byzantine Church these days, but Robert Urich was born Byzantine. (BTW: My cousin and he were in the same high school class in Toronto, OHIO.) Also, for you old-timers, I understand Sandra Dee was/is Byzantine.

To everyone,

Though Sandra Dee was a beautiful woman, I would like to know how she gave great witness to the Gospel thru her practice and teachings on Eastern Christian Traditions? Maybe she was a good practicing Christian and wrote some good theology books on the side? The same goes for Robert Urich - even though we don't know anything certain about his lasting impact on Eastern Christianity or theology. We can include former Brown's quarterback Bernie Kosar, but like most kids who leave home he left the Eastern Church. We can't guess. We need to know something about the person.

This is not a search for 'celebrities' but a request to list those who aided in restoring or promoting the Eastern Churches in the shadows of Vatican II. Maybe I should have been more clear.

Elias


[This message has been edited by Elias (edited 03-10-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Elias (edited 03-10-2000).]

Elias >>>
Sorry, I didn't read your original post as closely as I should have. You do raise a good challenge.

But in light of your question and my response, maybe in looking for spiritual hall-of-famers, we also in some way touch on why popular culture celebrities do not--at least on the surface--"promote" their Byzantine spirituality.

However, we must also keep in mind that we really don't know what type of spiritual life these folks lead; nor should we judge them. They may be contributing time, money, and/or talents that are not publicized, either because they want to keep it a secret or the popular media doesn't think it's worth a story.

I understand and appreciate what you have in mind with your post. And I think it's worth pursuing. I would, however, want to acknowledge a number of average individuals and families who use up a good part of their Sunday to make that one or two hour drive each way to church as well as all those involved in founding missions and churches in parts of this country that have few Roman Catholic communities, let alone Byzantine ones.

By the way, I heard, but don't know for sure, that Mike Ditka was a cradle-born Byzantine. There was also a rumor that the current governor of Minnesota, Jesse Ventura, was also.

Fr. Walter Ciszek, S.J.

He spent 20 years imprisoned in solitary and in gulags in Siberia. He ministered to both Catholics and Orthodox alike.

Rich,

Aaaaaahhh, forget it!


There are no real leaders in the Eastern Christian Rennaisance. No one to quote. No one to look up to except cradle-Byzantines who went Latin. We simply rely on fate. Our opinions are not shaped by people at all. We learn through osmosis. It's all a mystery.

It is funny how our interest in pop cultural celebrities (music, movies, and sports) are the only thing which calls our attention to Eastern Christianity. Yet those mentioning such people DON'T know for themselves what their spiritual lives were/are. Is this a sign that we are conditioned by mere pop culture and not ideas? Is Patriarch Maximos all there is? We have nothing to say about those who took a Latinized church and turned it around? No names?

Yet many on this board can rattle on and on about Byzantine traditions and things of that nature. I don't know anything about the readers on this board except for their simple and sometimes profound words. If we should take into account the person's personal contributions and spiritual life which cannot be measured by our standards, then what is the purpose of dialogue on this message board?


Elias

Please allow me to humbly suggest Archbishop Joseph Tawil of blessed memory. The powerful example of his life and his teaching in the document "The Courage to be Ourselves" has had a deep impact on the Melkite Church.

Might I suggest Father Ivan Voljanskyj, pioneer Byzantine Catholic priest in North America, for this "hall of fame."

His aggressive missionary zeal to serve his people led directly to the establishment of no less than 10 parishes and by extension, many more; his flock (whom he visited on many occasions in many different locales) stretched from upstate New York through all of eastern Pennsylvania & New Jersey, as far west as Minneapolis. All the parishes he established are still in existence (in various Byzantine Christian jurisdictions) and are, for the most part, thriving witnesses of Byzantine Christianity since it was first planted here some 110-120 years ago.

Some notable Orthodox from this country would be St. John of San Francisco (ROCOR) and Fr. Seraphim Rose (ROCOR). Before the time frame you mentioned there would be Alexis Toth who stood up for the Eastern tradition and was persecuted by RC bishops.

Vladyka Andrei Katkov (Katkoff), M.I.C.
The most recent (and hopefully, not the last) Russian Catholic Hierarch. He was born in Irkutsk, Russia and became a Marian of the Immaculate Conception. He was chosen Bishop for the Russian Catholics by Pope John XXIII.
He served the Russian Catholic Church with distinction and suffered greatly from both Communists and Latins. He founded the Russian Catholic Community in Australia and was a staunch defender of the Eastern Catholic Churches. The Russian Catholic Chapel of Our Lady of Fatima in Portugal uses an antimension which Vladyka consecrated. He reposed in (I believe) 1966 and is awaiting his resurrection in the cemetery of the Marian Fathers in Rome.

And what would be the persecution he suffered under the "Latins" similiar to under the Communists?

For now, I'm sticking with Andy Warhol.

[This message has been edited by Kurt (edited 03-12-2000).]

Glory to Jesus Christ ! This is a great idea, Elias. Like Silouan, please remember the very small Russian Byzantine Catholic Church. I second Moronikus' nomination of Walter Ciszek, SJ, priest confessor. I recommend another Jesuit who served the Russian mission, the Italian, Pietro Leoni, SJ priest confessor. Trained at the Russicum, he entered Russia during the Nazi invasion and ministered to the persecuted Russian and Ukrainian Christians. Captured by the Soviets in 1945, he continued his missionary work in Soviet prisons and gulags. Released in 1955, he later served the diaspora Russian Catholics as pastor of the Russian Catholic parish in Montreal until his death July 26, 1995. He led his parish in unending prayer for the conversion of Russia. Another Jesuit of the Russian Apostlate was the Czech, Fr. Karl Patzelt. A medic during WWII, he became a POW in the Soviet Union. Released on Dec.8, the Feast of the Immaculate Conception, he went on to study at the Russicum. After his ordination he served the Russian Catholics of the U.S. later becoming pastor of Our Lady of Fatima Byzantine Catholic Russian parish in San Francisco. A model of Orthodoxy in communion with Rome, he led his parish in untiring prayer for the conversion of Russia. Devoted to the Theotokos, he developed a great reputation for holiness. He was chosen to serve as the Archdiocesan exorcist. He reposed in May of 1988. These Three priests are also important because none of them were born Byzantines. They are good examples of the way Orthopraxis can sanctify.

[This message has been edited by Doulos of Fatima (edited 03-11-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Doulos of Fatima (edited 03-11-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Doulos of Fatima (edited 10-26-2000).]

How about Melkite Archbishop Elias Zoghby? His books and Confession of Orthodoxy has challenged many and got the issue of unity back on the table. No one can deny that the search and work for Church Unity is good thing. Many might not like his suggestions but no one has come up with anything better.

And Patriarch Joseph Slipjy(sp?).

Archbishop Maximos of Pittsburgh.

I shall include a few literary notables from various traditions who got us thinking again about Eastern Christianity such as:

Fr. George Maloney, SJ

Fr. Alexander Schmemann

Fr. Francis Dvornik (Roman Catholic) who challenged the Photian Schism myth promoted by the West for centuries.

Fr. Robert Taft, SJ


Best regards,
Elias

Glory to Jesus Christ!

I wonder if anyone else noticed that, among the viable Eastern Christians thus far nominated, none (I believe) are or were members of the largest Byzantine Cahtolic Church in America, the so-called "Ruthenian" Church (of which I am somewhat unfortunately a member).

Why is that? Why does it seem that the true pioneers and apologists, those who offered significant defenses of the Eastern Church, were Melkites? Why hasn't the Pittsburgh Metropolia been able to offer stern and proper resistance to Latinizations? Why the inability to create a truly Eastern Church?

With the exception of perhaps five or six priests and a handful of inspired and hardworking lay individuals, I can think of no one in the Ruthenian Church who should even merit honorable mention. Why is that? Why has the largest church in America produced so little in the way of true defenders, of men truly blessed with the grace of God?

This is a particularly sore spot for me, because as I look to the future, I find fewer and fewer men in my Church who have the ability to be leaders; I question whether many of them should even be ordained priests. What does that mean for my children and children's children? It is one of the reasons I continue to explore, in prayer and in conversation with spiritual advisors, the possibility of Orthodoxy.

I am interested in learning why this Church has such a poor track record. I am well aware of many of the reasons often put forward, but none of them seems convincing... Persecuted churches often flourish, but ours has languished terribly, and continues to produce poor clergy and a uniformly disinterested (and quickly shrinking) laity.

I now work with the high school children at my parish church, and not one of these kids knows anything about the spirit of Eastern Christianity or, if I may use a phrase I often hesitate to use, "Christianity as such." What is so disappointing is that my peasant grandparents lived an internalized, even intuitive Eastern Christianity, whereas these children (and most other younger people I know), with all the advantages in technology and the increased opportunity to learn about themselves, can barely describe an icon of Christ's Crucifixion -- "the guy on the Cross, uh... I think that's Jesus... right?"

This is a sad state of affairs. I spent twenty minutes trying to think of a Byzantine-Ruthenian Catholic in the last thirty years who deserves entry into the Eastern Church Hall of Fame, and, aside from a good friend (he happens to be a priest) who has shown me what Eastern Christianity is, and HOW TO DO IT, I can think of no one: certainly none of our "glorious" bishops, past or present, and certainly none of our meek priests.

Elias, if you are interested in a Hall of Shame, we can do business. My list is rather long: it begins with His Holiness Bishop Andrew of Passaic, and includes every Byzantine Catholic Hierarch -- except, perhaps, Bishop George and Bishop Basil (the jury is still out on these two men, though the inability of the present bishops to conform our particular law to Byzantine tradition casts some doubt on their capacity as well). The rest have run this church into the ground, caring more for their status as "shepherds" than for their flocks.

God bless the Melkites! Without their presence in the Americas, I'd probably be celebrating Stations of the Cross on Fridays during Great Fast.

Yours in Christ,
Theophilos

"Why hasn't the Pittsburgh Metropolia been able to offer stern and proper resistance to Latinizations?"

If this is to be the animating force within the Church, it would be no wonder high school students have little interest. If the "guy on the cross" is about intramural tit-for-tat, then everything is lost.

While I agree that "intramural tit-for-tat" is unnecessary, the children have to be taught something, one tradition or the other. I see mixing as only leading to confusion and finally desertion. Anyway...

Even though I don't know this man personally, I'd like to nominate Deacon Nicholas Daddano (sp?) from St. Andrew the Apostle Church in Westbury, LI, NY. I sat with some of his parishioners at an eparchial event recently. St. Andrew parish does not have a resident priest now and is served by clergy from Holy Resurrection in Smithtown and by bi-ritual clergy from the NYC area.

These people mentioned to me that since their former pastor left and they are now served by visiting clergy, Deacon Nicholas has been "the glue that held their parish together." That dedication to service and continuity is what is desirable in our clergy today to take us into tomorrow! We need more like Deacon Nicholas. Maybe, Father Nicholas???

Kurt:

Glory to Jesus Christ!

It's always so nice when legitimate questions on this forum are met with answers that attempt to mock instead of inform.

That said, your answer is a total non sequitur: I'm not bringing up the failings of the Pittsburgh metropolia because I'm jealous of the Melkites, etc. I LOVE the Melkites for embracing Eastern Catholicism for what it is, and not trying to dress it up as RC-lite.

What I'm asking is this: what kind of spiritual life and identity can we and our children have when our shepherds -- our so-called teachers and leaders -- have none, and therefore don't / can't lead by example, as it were?

Why does the largest "group" of Byzantine Catholics in the USA (largest at least at present -- the trend points otherwise) not have someone we can point to as an extraordinary defender of Eastern Christianity? Does this not suggest something problematic?

The question is hardly a pretense for some ridiculous game: I'm asking it for the sake of future generations.

I don't know how much anecdotal evidence counts towards understanding the problems of the Byzantine-Ruthenian Church, but I think the following illustrates to some extent what has been going on here for quite some time:

Eight years ago or so, when someone I know well was just beginning to study (on his own, of course!) and thus to understand what it means to be Eastern Christian, he came across a series of articles from the CNS wire in one of the eparchial newspapers extolling the celibate priesthood. In good conscience this young man decided to write the editors and ask that they either (a) not print such articles on this subject, or (b) write an editorial stating the Eastern Christian understanding of marriage and the priesthood. No response was received. He re-sent the same request on four separate occasions. No response. The fifth and sixth times he sent the letter, he requested that his letter be printed as a letter to the Editor. No response.

Finally, a year and a half later, he re-worked his original letter and sent it to a Roman Catholic publication, copying the editors of the eparchial newspaper: his desire was simply to set the record straight. No response, at least not in writing.

But within the next few weeks, at an eparchial function, this young man's future father-in-law (a married priest) was told that he would be in trouble if his future son-in-law did not cease "trying to stir up trouble." So, the father-in-law told the young man that if he did not stop this "foolishness" (foolishness!) that he would not be permitted to continue seeing his daughter.

Ah, so a written response is too much to ask of our omnipotent and omniscient clergy -- blackmail, so it would seem, is a much easier way to accomplish things.

The young man did get a written response, but only AFTER he agreed (1) not to write on the subject ever again; (2) to ensure that the RC publication did not print the letter; and (3) to apologize to the bishop and the newspaper staff.

So, generalizing from this one episode (which I know is not entirely isolated), perhaps one can see why the Pittsburgh metropolia has produced so few true defenders, if any. The young man learned the hard way what others (some priests, some lay) had always told him: they don't care what you say, they don't care what you know, and they certainly don't care about their flocks. They only care about whose lips are on the bishop's... uh... mitre.

As for John's post, Deacon Nicholas falls within the small group of exceptional men and women I alluded to. I don't know him personally, but am aware of his extraordinary dedication.

Yours in Christ,
Theophilos

[This message has been edited by theophilos (edited 03-14-2000).]

"what kind of spiritual life and identity can we and our children have when our shepherds -- our so-called teachers and leaders -- have
none"

If the bishops of the Metropolia have no spiritual life or identity, I'll be the first to consent we close the whole enterprise down and join the Latin Rite.

K.

Theophilos,

I don't know of any Ruthenian Catholics worthy of the Hall of Fame. It seems that most of the problems originated within the Latinized heirarchy of the Rusyn Church in the U.S. The litany of past Archbishops since Takach are quite a bit shady. Shereghy calls Takach the "Good Bishop." Good for what? Then there was Ivancho, the "Dark Horse" according to another priestly writer. Then we got Elko - who did the ultimate and officially became a Roman Catholic. Then Kocisko - who debated against some of the points of the Decree on the Eastern Churches at the Council. Kocisko was the promoter of the "Our People" myth. Too bad many of Our People (including his own family) went Roman. Then we got Dolany. Hmmmmm. God had the last word on this one. We can only hope for the better with the current Metropolitan Archbishop Judson. Yet he backed down and did not hold his ground when Rome blew its stack on lifting the band on married priests. The Ruthenian Church has always been hyper-affectionat towards the Roman Church - always asking permission to act like a sui juris church. Sui juris? Only in the mind of an idealist.

We can only pray for the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Maybe it is time for the people to demand more out of their 'leaders.' A father who has to always go to his neigbor to get permission to do things in his own home is not a father. Period.

Please note the following who have done more than our own bishops in teaching our faith:

Fr. Robert Taft, SJ
Fr. Jean Corbin, SJ
Fr. George Maloney, SJ
Fr. Francis Dvornik
Fr. Casimir Kucharek
Fr. Thomas Spidlik, SJ

Thank God for the Jesuits or our bookshelves would be empty!

We shouldn't forget the "Light for Life" writings published jointly by the Eastern Catholic bishops in the U.S. Yet it was mostyly priests who did the writing.

I am at a lost to explain the lack of episcopal Hall of Famers from the Ruthenian Church. The more scholarly writers seem to be light-years ahead of our bishops. Maybe the Jesuits should have kept the Uzhorod Cathedral Church? Maybe we would be Orthodox now.

I don't want to sound too bitter about the Ruthenian Church. I think we have come a long way from doing Stations, Rosaries, Ashes, Eucharistic Adoration, etc. Today's Church is not yesterday's church for sure. Many of those changes have resulted in some of our bishops taking the initiative to change things. The late Bishop Emil Mihalik was the first to promulgate the "Ordo Celebrationis" in the U.S. of the Ruthenians. It only took over 20 years! Deacon and Cantor schools have started. It only took 100+ years!!! One can sense a certain degree of hesitancy in implementing any program in the Ruthenian Church.


Elias

Glory to Jesus Christ ! I nominate the hieromonk Athanasius Pekar, OSBM author of so many distinguished works on Carpatho-Rusyn Ecclesiatical History. My favorite, the work that would make anyone want to be Ruthenian, is "You Shall Be Witnesses unto Me." This is about the martyrs an confessors of the Mukachevo Eparchy. "God grant him(Priestmonk Athanasius) many years !"

Glory to Jesus Christ ! I would like to nominate two more vostochnik pastors of Carpatho-Rusyn parishes: Fr. Eugene Linowski and Fr. Christopher Zugger. Fr. Eugene is well known and loved as a great exponent of Orthodox spirituality at St. Mary in Van Nuys, CA. He continues this tradition at his present parish, St. John Chrysostom in Columbus, OH. Fr. Christopher founded the first Ruthenian parish in New Mexico. He is also well known for his videos, books and booklets. His parish Our Lady of Perpetual Help continues to flower. http://www.swcp.com/~olph/

[This message has been edited by Doulos of Fatima (edited 03-23-2000).]

Dear friends,

I would like to nominate for the Hall of fame the Byzantine Catholics who maintain this excellent web site. Hundreds of Byzantine Catholics (maybe thousands?) have deepened their faith through studying the materials on this site. Many of us have deeply enriched our own spiritual lives by participating in this forum. Countless Roman Catholics have also learned about us through visits to this site.

All in all, Byzcath.org has made a valuable contribution to Eastern Catholicism, and the direction that it is moving in.

The Sinner Anthony

[This message has been edited by Dragani (edited 03-24-2000).]

I stumbled into this site today and while viewing the many and varied postings, I came across this one. May I cast a vote on behalf of a parish priest who in my pre first communion days represented what God the FATHER really was in my mind. Just, stern, compassionate, forgiving, loving, the shepherd of his flock. As an adult, I now see him as no better or worse a vessel as any one of us, just a man available to the in dwelling of the Holy Spirit who took up his cross and followed when called. My thanks and a prayer for God's eternal blessing for Aurelius Petrick.

I nominate Fr. Nicholas Seregelly (1864-1903), a little known, pioneering Greek Catholc priest who was a founding or early pastor in Homestead PA (St. John's--now a Cathedral), Whiting IN (St. Mary's), Globeville CO (now part of Denver)(Holy Transfiguration) and Pueblo (St. Michael's) CO. After his arrival in 1898, Fr. Seregelly approached the local RC Bishop of Denver, Nicholas C. Maltz, and sought his assistance in bringing his wife and family to the U.S. Bishop Maltz was appalled and responded by attempting to close the Globeville parish and cutting off financial support to Fr. Seregelly. Fr. Seregelly could easily have embraced Orthodoxy (as did Fr. Alexis Toth), but instead opted to continue to work among the Greek Catholic Rusyns and Ukrainians of Colorado until his death in 1903 at the age of 39, never having been re-united with his family. The RC priest who officiated at his funeral did so contary to the orders of Bishop Maltz. Not surprisingly, the Globeville (our OCA friends will recognize it as today's Holy Transfiguration Cathedral) and Pueblo parishes became Orthodox soon after Fr. Seregelly's death and the Byzantine Rite was not re-established in Colorado until the 1950's. Vicnaja Dostojnomu Svjascenniku Pamjat'!




[This message has been edited by John Schweich (edited 03-25-2000).]

I nominate... Harvey Keitel's mother. ;-))
Knowing that H.K. usually plays Wolves rather than Red Riding Hoods (and he's doing it suspiciously well ;-) - she had to be a saint to bring him up well.
And she succeeded with that - Harvey is proud of his mother's religion and origin, he often talks about it in interviews.

In Christ,

Godfrey

Why not the Rusyns' very own Fr. (later Bishop and still later Metropolitan) Orestes Chornock, who--until the Roman juridical process wore him down--tried to be a courageous and outspoken voice for the Eastern Church in the 1930s against the ourtrageous Cum Data Fuerit decree, reimposing clerical celebacy, and in the process almost destroying the Greek Catholic Church in the U.S.

John S.

During or after Vatican II.

Elias

Elias: Whoops! I appear...ahemmmm... to have wandered across the temporal boundaries. Sorry.