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#377552 - 03/14/12 08:13 AM Russian Old Believers in Millville, NJ  
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Polish American Offline
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A few photos of their church, but little information.

http://www.quakerranter.org/2012/03/russian-old-believers-in-millville-nj/

#377602 - 03/15/12 04:19 AM Re: Russian Old Believers in Millville, NJ [Re: Polish American]  
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Thank you, Tom. Contrary to the writer's statement, St Nicholas is a popovotsy (priested) Church or was, last I knew. I believe that it is of the Russian Old Orthodox Church, under Patriarch Aleksandr.

Many years,

Neil


"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."
#377605 - 03/15/12 06:19 AM Re: Russian Old Believers in Millville, NJ [Re: Irish Melkite]  
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Neil,

I found this historical note interesting regarding the Millville community....

...A third group of Oregon Old Believers, the Turchane or “Turkish” group, originated in Southern Russia in the seventeenth century and, after various migrations, settled in Turkey in the eighteenth century, in villages along Lake Manyas. In 1963 the Tolstoy Foundation responded to their appeal for help and, aided by Attorney General Robert Kennedy, arranged for their resettlement in New Jersey, near Paterson and Milville, and in New York. Some of this group came to Oregon in 1967 and joined the other two groups......(Sintzyantsi and Harbintsi being numbers one and two)

Interesting for myself is Paterson is New Jersey's third largest city and it appears from my very limited reading of these communities they tended to reside in rual based areas.

#377617 - 03/15/12 10:29 AM Re: Russian Old Believers in Millville, NJ [Re: Irish Melkite]  
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I just spoke with a member of the Erie priestless Old Believer church who is in contact with the Millville church, and she assures me that it is STILL priestless. They do not have a nastavnik, have had Father Pimen Simon come from Erie for confessions (he has advised them to choose what to do), and are considering becoming priested. But, they have NOT made a decision.

#377623 - 03/15/12 03:52 PM Re: Russian Old Believers in Millville, NJ [Re: Polish American]  
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So, wait, is it a priestless Priestless Old Rite community, or a priestless Priested Old Rite community? grin

Fr. David

#377629 - 03/15/12 04:34 PM Re: Russian Old Believers in Millville, NJ [Re: Chtec]  
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I am sorry if I was unclear and that you misunderstood. Millville is NOT a "priested priestless church" (if there were such a thing). As I said, my priestless source in Erie tells me that Millville REMAINS priestless. OCCASIONALLY, Millville congregants invited an Erie Old Believer priest JUST to hear confessions. He advised them to decide what they want to be - priestless or priested. They are considering what to do. So far, no decision.

Part of the problem is that of the four PRIESTLESS Old Believer churches in the east - Erie & Marianna, PA; Detroit, and Millville - only Erie has a nastavnik to lead religious services; he is in his 90s and it is hard for him to travel. There are no American men interested or trained to replace him. So, some of these churches have invited nastavniks from Riga to visit them and to consider accepting a call to move here and to lead one of the churches. So far, no success.

I will visit the Erie church this Spring and later share what information I can with everyone. Please pray for all four of these priestless churches and their members.

#377666 - 03/16/12 04:33 AM Re: Russian Old Believers in Millville, NJ [Re: Polish American]  
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Bless, Father David,

To add to what Tom has said, there were historically a few of the bespopovtsy concords in the Old Country which would turn to popovotsy priests on certain occasions. Most notable among them were the Demenskie (Demenskie Concord) which resulted from an 1888 schism among the Sepychie (another bespopovtsy concord). The beliefs of the Demenskie were (are, they still exist, albeit in small numbers) consistent with those of Bespopovtsy generally, including rejection of a priesthood in the main and rejection of most of the Mysteries.

The majority of adherents are apparently elder retirees, chiefly drawn from the ranks of the widowed. Upon joining, they disavow the need for Mysteries other than Baptism, and adopt taboos on social and economic exchange with non-believers, avoiding consumption of commercial foodstuffs, and maintaining strict fasts. Interestingly, however, the tendency among them is to seek Baptism of infants by priests of the Bielokrinitsa Hierarchy. At death, though, they rely on the ministrations of the 'spiritual mothers' of the community.

Tom,

My mistake. I thought Millville was the church which had been popovotsy but whose priest had reposed and was being led by his two (now themselves elderly) daughters for lack of a nastavnik. Do you know which church I'm confusing it with?

Many years,

Neil


"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."
#387565 - 10/25/12 06:42 PM Re: Russian Old Believers in Millville, NJ [Re: Polish American]  
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Met with a trustee of the Marianna, PA Old Believer Church today. She stated Millvile has a priest, Detroit and Marianna do not, but they will accept the ministry of the Priest from Nativity in Erie when he can come. Marianna is down to 15 active members, the only service is Vespers on Sat night.


My cromulent posts embiggen this forum.
#387583 - 10/26/12 08:54 AM Re: Russian Old Believers in Millville, NJ [Re: Fr. Deacon Lance]  
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Originally Posted by Fr. Deacon Lance
Marianna is down to 15 active members, the only service is Vespers on Sat night.


So, does that fulfill their Sunday Obligation? grin

A few years back, the Orthodox churches in the Mon Valley sponsored a trip to and tour of the church in Marianna, to learn more about the Old Believer communities in general, and Marianna in particular. I'm still sorry that I had to miss it!

Fr. David

#387711 - 10/30/12 08:27 PM Re: Russian Old Believers in Millville, NJ [Re: Fr. Deacon Lance]  
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My great grandparents were members of the Marianna church and are buried in the cemetary. How would I find any church records of the family? Our family bible also was said to have been given back to the church. Their names were John Federoff and Anna Zaharoff.


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