Hi,

It appears that some parishes serve multiple liturgies on Sunday and some even have another one on Saturday night. What is the reason and how exactly is it possible? Meaning do they use multiple altars/antimension etc. I always thought that a priest could only serve one liturgy on a Sunday. I am just curious not trying to criticize.

In some cases, two liturgies are required on Sunday because the Church itself is too small to accommodate the entire congregation. In others, the parish is the only church serving a wide area, and a second liturgy is laid on to accommodate people who must drive long distances to get there (I know people who make a 150 mile round trip).

But it must be said in most cases, there really is no excuse for having two or more Liturgies on Sunday, or for having the so-called "vigil Liturgy" on Saturday evening. The latter is certainly just an imitation of the perniciously bad Latin habit of laying on a 5PM Saturday Mass in honor of Our Lady of Soccer Practice or those who need an early start on the pilgrimage to the beach.

The Liturgical Instruction allows that attending Vespers on Saturday evening can fulfill the "Sunday obligation" (for those who dig such language), the purpose being here to revitalize liturgical celebration of the Liturgy of the Hours. But I have been told outright by a priest that a certain jurisdiction rejects that precept and will only celebrate Saturday Vespers in conjunction with the Divine Liturgy (AKA "Verspergy"), on the assumption that nobody would show up for a non-Eucharistic service. A number of other priests, however, have condemned this practice as uncanonical and a latinization.

On the theme of 'vespergies', the Greek Orthodox parish in my part of Wales has vesperal liturgies on the eves of many feast days. Is this common elsewhere?

Fr Mark

I have attended Vesperal Liturgies in the UGCC as well

Thanks Anhelyna - I should add that I was thinking of vesperal liturgies on the days when they are not appointed by the ustav/typikon.

Thanks for the information Stuart.

Fr Mark, I have been to Vesperal Liturgies in the Antiochian Archdiocese but they are on the actual feast day. They are well attended. I would imagine they do it that way so that people can actually attend. The Antiochian Archdiocese is the only Orthodox Jurisdiction in the US that I am aware of that does this.

The Typicon in some cases does call for Vespers and the Divine Liturgy to be celebrated on the even of certain feasts--but on not any old Saturday.

I have only noticed it on Christmas Eve (GOA).

Interesting information here and in your earlier post too, thanks Stuart.

At the Russian Catholic chapel I sometimes go to, the standard schedule is Vespers Sat evening, liturgy once Sun morning. But for major feasts it's usually a "vesperal liturgy" the day before. This might be because of staffing, or perhaps it's just appropiate for those feasts? I don't know enough to say.

Anyway, as to your other post, I just wanted to point out, as I am wont to, that the Eastern and Western traditional practices actually agree. Evening Mass, and the idea of fulfilling the obligation for Sunday on Saturday evening, derive from permissions granted by Pius XII in the 50s. However traditionally in the Latin Rite, Mass is in the morning and bination by priests is discouraged, with the exception of things like the Easter Vigil. (The restoration of the Easter Vigil to the evening actually makes a lot of sense). It's also the Western tradition to have I and II Vespers of great feasts and of Sundays in the parish churches, but this has become sadly very rare. It was once routine, however, and I pray that this will return in the West.

In Volume VI of his history of the Divine Liturgy, Fr. Taft reports comments from one of his colleagues (Parenti, I think), who observed evening liturgies for Sunday in Greece. I believe they took place on Saturday evening. He also reported that the bishops there have allowed a second liturgy to be celebrated on Sunday at later hour and (if memory serves) is a slightly abbreviated form.

Actually, permission for evening Masses in the 1950s was for the date itself, not the evening prior: Sunday Mass could be celebrated on Sunday evening or a Feast day on the evening of the Feast.

The Saturday evening practice was something initiated in the last 1960s--I remember when it first came about and our pastor explicitly stated from the pulpit that this was an abuse and was only meant to fulfill the Mass obligation for those who worked Sunday morning or had a vital need to travel. It wasn't long, however, and people just got into the habit of ignoring that kind of instruction. The phrase "getting it over with" then came into vogue.

It's interesting to note that when we lived in the Archdiocese of Philadelphia during the late 1970s, Cardinal Krol was the only Catholic bishop in North America that did not give permission for evening Masses, whether on Sunday, the Feast, or the evening prior. Made things a bit rough. But his reasoning was the same as my pastor--it was an abuse that did not need to be.

Bob

What a shame, Bob...it is such a nice ritual for families to take their children to Church on Sunday mornings and then share a meal together like everyone from every Christian faith tradition did when I was growing up...since so few Catholics do that in my area (but rather fulfill their obligation other times, and children's catechism classes are scheduled during the week), soccer practice and such activities are always scheduled for Sunday mornings.

Sunday mornings for all people seem to have now become synonymous with sleeping in, brunches and eating out, jogging, sports activities for children, etc. I really think that if Roman Catholics were obligated to go on Sunday mornings, and didn't have the other options, so much of that would change. So many of the Christians in the NE are Roman Catholic.

I think that having Sunday School/catechism for children on Sunday mornings helps get lazy parents into church. I know some people in my faith tradition (GOA) criticize it, but I would make a bet that 2/3 of the young parents there wouldn't be there if there was no Sunday School for the children scheduled-- and our churches are jam packed on Sunday mornings.

My theory stands because as those children grow up and out of Sunday School, many of those parents disappear never to be seen again at a Liturgy! (They are then replaced by younger families) What a shame for their souls--they seem to be so easily sucked into secular society and its norms.

My recollection of the timing of those changes is identical to Bob's, as is my recollection of how it quickly came to be merely a matter of convenience rather than necessity.

And, I agree with Alice's perceptions of the effects as well. I don't see it in the Eastern parishes in the area, as most around here don't offer Saturday Vesperal/Vigil Divine Liturgies or weekday CCD, but I routinely see the situation she describes in the Latin parishes.

Many years,

Neil

The fact that some people abuse a pastoral accommodation that exists to meet a genuine need for some is not sufficient reason to take away that accommodation entirely.

It's when most people abuse a pastoral accommodation, to the point of believing it to be normative rather than exceptional, that it should be suppressed.

Please note the Canons below. Whatever the guidelines were when Vigil Masses/Liturgies were introduced, the current Canons make no distinction between Evening and Morning Mass/Liturgy. One is not better for going in the Morning rather than the Evening. However, whether one goes Morning or Evening, unneccesary work is to be avoided on Sunday.


CCEO
Canon 881 §1. The Christian faithful are bound by the obligation to participate on Sundays and feast days in the Divine Liturgy, or according to the prescriptions or legitimate customs of their own Church sui iuris, in the celebration of the divine praises.

§2. In order for the Christian faithful to fulfill this obligation
more easily, the available time runs from the evening of the
vigil until the end of the Sunday or feast day.

§3. The Christian faithful are strongly recommended to receive the Divine Eucharist on these days and indeed more frequently, even daily.

§4. The Christian faithful should abstain from those labors or
business matters which impede the worship to be rendered to God, the joy which is proper to the Lord's day, or to the proper relaxation of mind and body.

CIC
Canon 1246 §1. Sunday, on which by apostolic tradition the paschal mystery is celebrated, must be observed in the universal Church as the primordial holy day of obligation. The following days must also be observed: the Nativity of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Epiphany, the Ascension, the Body and Blood of Christ, Holy Mary the Mother of God, her Immaculate Conception, her Assumption, Saint Joseph, Saint Peter and Saint Paul the Apostles, and All Saints.

§2. With the prior approval of the Apostolic See, however, the conference of bishops can suppress some of the holy days of obligation or transfer them to a Sunday.

Canon 1247 On Sundays and other holy days of obligation, the faithful are obliged to participate in the Mass. Moreover, they are to abstain from those works and aVairs which hinder the worship to be rendered to God, the joy proper to the Lord’s day, or the suitable relaxation of mind and body.

Canon 1248 §1. A person who assists at a Mass celebrated anywhere in a Catholic rite either on the feast day itself or in the evening of the preceding day satisfies the obligation of participating in the Mass.

§2. If participation in the eucharistic celebration becomes impossible because of the absence of a sacred minister or for another grave cause, it is strongly recommended that the faithful take part in a liturgy of the word if such a liturgy is celebrated in a parish church or other sacred place according to the prescripts of the diocesan bishop or that they devote themselves to prayer for a suitable time alone, as a family, or, as the occasion permits, in groups of families.

These passages of the CCEO are lifted almost verbatim out of the Latin Code, which makes them dubious in my mind.

On the other hand, note that the Liturgical Instruction directs that the Eastern Catholic Churches will do all that is possible to reduce or eliminate the differences between themselves and their non-Catholic counterparts, restoring as far as possible the fullness and integrity of their authentic Tradition.

The authentic Tradition is pretty clear: One liturgy, one altar, one Eucharist. We do not venerate Saint Pragmatica, nor should we be erecting shrines to Our Lady of Soccer Practice. We're supposed to be counter-cultural, and this is a good place to start.

And when you do that, what about the people who still need the pastoral acommodation? BTW, I don't have things such as soccer practice and a head start on a trip to the beach in mind. I'm thinking of those whose jobs require them to work on Sunday mornings, especially those whose jobs involve providing essential services.

In some extreme situations (those who work 2 x 12 hour weekend days) it may be necessary for the individual to impose the self discipline of finding another regular (week)day as "their Sunday"; to attend liturgy that day and curtail unnecessary work and recreation.

Weekday liturgies do not take the place of the celebration of the Lord's Day. What I had in mind was situations like that mentioned by Bob, where Cardinal Krol would not permit evening masses at all-not on Saturday evening, not on Sunday evening, and not on Feast Days. Such a policy goes beyond just what you call extreme situations-one need not have a job that involves a 2x12 hour weekend at work not to be able to attend Sunday liturgy. Someone whose job involves working, say 8AM-5PM on Sundays might not be able to attend.

For me personally, I am not presently affected by my job. I am a high school teacher, so I don't work on Sundays. However, my wife has a serious health condition that does make it difficult for her to attend Divine Liturgy in the morning from time to time. On those days, I am grateful that there are Roman Catholic parishes in the area that to have a Sunday evening Mass.

The practice of Sat evening and Sun evening Masses has actually made things harder, paradoxically, for those who work Sunday. If someone has a grueling job they simply have to do including on Sunday morning (e.g. a 24-hr shift on Sunday, or even hard manual labor on Sunday for 8-10 hours), they are now, oddly, required (or may feel required) to find a way to go to Mass on Sat or Sun evening even when the body might require rest.

In the past such a person, with a well formed conscience, would just realize they are doign what they need to do for their family or society (e.g. if you are working in an ER or you're a cop or whatever) and just not have to go to a Sunday liturgy.

A second paradox already mentioned: the proliferation of Sat/Sun evening liturgies has actually accelerated the secularization of our weekends, so that so many who would go at the proper Sun morning times have conflicts now and choose to go at other times. We should be able to tell our superiors, as Christian employees, that if sometimes can be done on Sat or another time, we'd prefer to do it then instead of Sun evening, beacuse we go to Church. Now the Church has actually taken this opportunity from us, and the employers/society can tell us just to go in the evening.

We should also avoid violence to our traditions. Someone is not going to go to hell if they can't go to Sunday liturgy because they have to work. As opposed to the situation of someone is dying and needs Confession, in that case I'd say a priest should go to great lengths to provide it.

Such good points, NYCatholic. It also takes away the sanctity and respect of society (employers, sports coaches, etc.) for Sunday being the traditional Christian day of rest and (hopefully) spiritual pursuit.

Ofcourse, if one does not foresee being able to attend DL or Mass on Sunday for whatever reason, it is nice to have an option, but the option has been a bit abused I think.

My route from home to church takes me through one small town, but otherwise open country with no retail.

On those rare occasions when I do drive to a larger community after worship I am always struck and saddened to see the retailers' parking lots nearly filled, even as early as Noon.

The disparity was especially glaring in late October when many in the parish were hoping we would cancel the liturgy the day after the "pumpkin snow" that dumped an unexpected four inches in southern Pennsylvania. We didn't cancel--attendance subpar but not glarinly so--and en route to a dinner invitation we passed a food market that had no parking available. Can't get to church but can get to "the food that perishes."

This whole issue is, at least as I see it, so foreign...regardless of what the Latin CCEO states...Eastern Christians do not have an obligation to attend the DL...However, it is abhorent for one not to attend (why would one not want to attend the celebration?)...I believe the "standard" was if you missed 3 consecutive you essentially "excumenicated" yourself causing a need to confession to reconcile yourself to your brothers and sisters...This really should simply be a matter of parishoner and priest...to get to the "heart of the matter"...Multiple liturgies do nothing other than "split the family"...Now with the Larger RC parishes...the simple numbers require multiple liturgies...out of space constraints...

That sounds fair. But no Latin parish should be able to use this argument without demonstrating that their reasonably scheduled Sun morning liturgies are actually full to the brim. *Then* perhaps they could have justification for celebrating the Sunday Mass on the evening before or of that Sunday.

It would be an excellent excuse to start breaking up these megaparishes into something more spiritually nourishing. Industrial scale Christianity never works.

And where will they find the priests?

"normal" would have something like 99 RC parishes in Las Vegas, rather than 17. But the diocese doesn't have 50 priests, let alone 99.

My parent's church in San Jose was told that masses are to be eliminated unless 2/3 full.

hawk