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#377966 - 03/23/12 02:25 PM
Gk-Catholic Patriarch: Orthodox connivance with Stalin undermi
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Member
Registered: 08/25/11
Posts: 223
Loc: Central Massachusetts
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Greek-catholic Patriarch: Orthodox connivance with Stalin undermines our relations
by Nina Achmatova Asia News 3/22/2012
The Major Archbishop of Kiev, Sviatoslav Shevchuk, invites Russian Orthodox to recognize their complicity in the persecution of Catholics in the USSR. For the Moscow Patriarchate the Uniate situation is the biggest obstacle to the meeting between Kirill and Pope.
Moscow (AsiaNews) - The non-admission of the Russian Orthodox Churches' complicity with the Soviet persecution of Greek-Catholics in Ukraine is undermining relations between the two Churches. The warning was voiced by the Archbishop of Kiev, Sviatoslav Shevchuk, head of the Greek-catholic Church. Meanwhile, the Patriarchate of Moscow has again confirmed that precisely the Greek-Catholic situation - Eastern Rite, but in communion with the Pope - is the biggest hurdle for the expected meeting between Patriarch Kirill and Benedict XVI.
"The ability to apologize shows a lively Christian conscience, which is a precondition for the so-called healing of memories," said Archbishop Shevchuk in an interview with the Ukrainian newspaper Den (Day). "The Russian Orthodox Church was used by Stalin's regime for the compulsory settlement of our church - he added - the fact there has been no symbolic reconciliation between us is really a serious obstacle to the development of mutual relations."
In 1946, two years after the occupation of Ukraine by the Red Army, with the council of Lviv orchestrated by Soviet power, the Greek-Catholic Church (Uniate) was outlawed, because it was considered - as opposed to orthodoxy - hostile to Moscow and to directly 'dependent' on the Vatican. Priests and bishops were sent to jail or labor camps, from where many did not return. More than 2,270 parishes were closed or transferred, and their property passed to the Orthodox. Patriarch Shevchuk has also reiterated that the discussion on the "pseudo-Synod of Lviv" is still "at a standstill."
The so-called Uniate issue (term, however, considered derogatory by those who follow this ritual) continues to hinder ecumenical dialogue between Rome and Moscow. This was admitted recently, by the head of the Department for External Relations of the Moscow Patriarchate, Metropolitan Hillarion. Commenting to TV Dozhd, on the possibility of a meeting between Kirill and Pope, Hilarion said that the encounter will take place only "when we feel that both parties are mature enough to bring real fruits and real change to better the situation of Christian Churches ". The Minister of Foreign Affairs of the Patriarchate of Moscow has indicated in the "interfaith situation in western Ukraine," the main obstacle to the achievement of the expected event. The Patriarchate insists on this point, saying "we are waiting for concrete steps in this regard by the Catholic Church."
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#377968 - 03/23/12 02:50 PM
Re: Gk-Catholic Patriarch: Orthodox connivance with Stalin undermi
[Re: Tomassus]
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Global Moderator
Member
Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 9548
Loc: Massachusetts
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Well, one certainly cannot accuse His Beatitude Sviatoslav of being mealy-mouthed!
May God grant him many years!
_________________________
"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."
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#377975 - 03/23/12 03:18 PM
Re: Gk-Catholic Patriarch: Orthodox connivance with Stalin undermi
[Re: Tomassus]
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Member
Registered: 01/06/08
Posts: 752
Loc: Chicago
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The Major Archbishop is going to have to deal with such things as the glorification of St. Alexis Kabaliuk, who was persecuted for his leadership in the Return to Orthodoxy movement in Austria Hungarian Ukraine and was involved in the Sobors of 1946, thereby in the repudiating and annulling of the very Brest the Major Archbishop celebrates and from which he derives his authority.
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#377976 - 03/23/12 03:41 PM
Re: Gk-Catholic Patriarch: Orthodox connivance with Stalin undermi
[Re: Tomassus]
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Member
Registered: 11/09/01
Posts: 6927
Loc: Falls Church, VA
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One would be advised to follow the example of the Patristic Church, which quite often condemned and honored the same persons and counsels simultaneously. Perhaps they were aware that mindless consistency is a rat trap from which there is no escape?
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#377977 - 03/23/12 04:29 PM
Re: Gk-Catholic Patriarch: Orthodox connivance with Stalin undermi
[Re: StuartK]
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Member
Registered: 01/06/08
Posts: 752
Loc: Chicago
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One would be advised to follow the example of the Patristic Church, which quite often condemned and honored the same persons and counsels simultaneously. Perhaps they were aware that mindless consistency is a rat trap from which there is no escape? It would, when the Patristic Church was converging. Pope St. Cyril of Alexandria, for instance, did not recognize a different Patriarch of Constantinole other than Archb. St. Proclos who enshrined St. John's relics while Pope St. exclaimed "If John Chrysostom is to be counted among the Archbishops of Constantinople, let Judas be counted among the disciples." Things were different when Pope Timothy Aelurus canonized Pope Dioscoros, and very different when Rome canonized Pope Leo IX of Rome. The presumed translation of the Major Archbishop's see to Kiev in defiance of his own canons, the self adoption of the title of "Patriarch" in contradiction to those same canons, etc. doesn't show signs of convergence in the Ukraine. Throw on top of that the Major Archbishop's interference in the return of the Pochajiv Lavra to the Church (among others), and I hope his Beatitude is not holding his breath on the Patriarch of Moscow taking him up on his invitation. Not that some (more) soul searching would be bad, but that would include what went on during the First and Second Polish Republics, and under the Habsburgs. Not just under the Bolsheviks, who persecuted the Orthodox as well. I'd be interested in how comprehensive the Polish Latin Ordinaries-Russian Orthodox reconciliation accord goes, set for Pat. Kiril's signature in August (I still have questions about Met. Sawa's signature) when his beatitude visits Poland.
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#377982 - 03/23/12 07:10 PM
Re: Gk-Catholic Patriarch: Orthodox connivance with Stalin undermi
[Re: Nelson Chase]
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Member
Registered: 01/06/08
Posts: 752
Loc: Chicago
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Forgiveness, Christian Charity, and love are the solutions to what divides us.
True, but the devil, as always, is in the details.
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#377984 - 03/23/12 08:18 PM
Re: Gk-Catholic Patriarch: Orthodox connivance with Stalin undermi
[Re: IAlmisry]
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Member
Registered: 03/29/05
Posts: 38
Loc: Madison, WI
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Forgiveness, Christian Charity, and love are the solutions to what divides us.
True, but the devil, as always, is in the details. Can you elaborate? I do not see why our relations have to be so bad. We need to have mutual respect, love and forgiveness all around. The RO feel wronged as do the UGCC so how hard is it to look at our own actions from the other's point of view and ask for mutual forgiveness? What is to be gained by polemics and alienating one another?
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#377986 - 03/23/12 09:18 PM
Re: Gk-Catholic Patriarch: Orthodox connivance with Stalin undermi
[Re: IAlmisry]
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Moderator
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Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 5568
Loc: Hollidaysburg, PA
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Throw on top of that the Major Archbishop's interference in the return of the Pochajiv Lavra to the Church With all due respect, I thought that this monastery was actually Ruthenian in its origin and only became part of the Russian Orthodox Church after the Russian Empire took control of the territory in which it was located. That brings up another point, perhaps off topic, but tangential. Recently I read that the four ancient patriarchs and archbishop of Cyprus made a point that the parameters of the Moscow Partriarchate are not the same as the territory of the Russian state--or something to that effect. It may be off topic, but I have to wonder if this issue needs to be resolved in Orthodoxy before discussions about who should own this monastery/lavra can be discussed. Bob
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#377987 - 03/24/12 01:12 AM
Re: Gk-Catholic Patriarch: Orthodox connivance with Stalin undermi
[Re: theophan]
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Member
Registered: 05/01/09
Posts: 1210
Loc: Upstate New York
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I would just add with all respect to the honest positions expressed by others here, that to me, speaking as an Orthodox believer in the 21st century, that there is a significant distinction between the wrongs perpetrated on behalf of both the Orthodox and the Greek Catholic adherents in long ago historical times and those which were perpetrated within the memories of lives in being.
I am sympathetic to the complaints of the Major-Archbishop regarding the actions of the Russian Church and the UGCC during the Soviet Era.
I say this as someone who also is looking for a sign of healing and regret from Rome as my grandfathers were formally excommunicated by Rome in the 1930's along with scores of others in America. Some, of course were excommunicated during the lifetime of St. Alexis Toth in the early part of the 20th century, and others during the KOVO schism of the 1930's. These Rusyn American men and women had the temerity to challenge the attempts by some in the Roman Church (and within the Greek Catholic church as well) to assimilate and perhaps eliminate the Greek Catholics as a separate Rite in the New World. Whether or not their fears were justified is a subject for historians to review and argue about, but none the less, their fears were real and the passions that were unleashed were real and in many towns and families across America, those passions were as destructive to faith as any experienced by those in the 'old world' during the 20th century.
Rome, and the Major Archbishop, can not expect forgiveness and charity to be a one way street. A symbolic gesture coming from Rome, such as the posthumous lifting of excommunications issued against men like St. Alexis Toth, Bishop Orestes Chornock of thrice blessed memory and my own grandfathers and many other pious, albeit perhaps hot-headed men and women who faced the same fate during those tumultuous times certainly would be viewed by many within the Orthodox world as a sign of Rome's recognition that reconciliation is indeed a two way street.
I can freely say this as well as a faithful son of the Carpatho-Rusyn people and a relative of Blessed Paul Goidich on my paternal grandmothers side of the family, who died in a Slovak prison for his refusal to submit to the forced liquidation of the Greek Catholic Church. I recall how profoundly moved many were when the late Metropolitan Nicholas of ACROD proclaimed the Synaxis of the Orthodox Saints of Carpatho-Rus (including St. Alexis Kabuliak, St. Maxym Sandovych and St. Alexis of Wilkes-Barre) and in the same proclamation asked that, while it was not possible to commemorate them liturgically on that event, for the faithful of ACROD to remember men like Blessed Paul and Blessed Theodor Rhomza in their prayers as men of faith who gave their lives to the struggle to preserve their time honored traditions from the efforts of those who would seek to assimilate them.
I can also freely say this because in America over the past twenty five years the Orthodox and Greek Catholic Rusyn Americans and their hierarchs have made great strides to heal the pain caused by the actions in past decades - all without any requirement that either admit error in their faith or where they are today as a result of that turmoil.
I can also say this as the son and brother of Orthodox priests, the father of a future priest, and the cousin of a Greek Catholic cantor, a Greek Catholic priest and a Greek Catholic nun in Slovakia - and a former Orthodox seminarian and Orthodox youth leader with ties to Ukraine and Slovakia who now is living in southern Poland.
Many of us, and our families have indeed 'walked the walk' and I believe that it gives those of us in such a position the right to voice a heartfelt, if provocative opinion on these matter.
I would hope and pray that the Major Archbishop has in his own heart, and through the experiences of this own life, similar hopes, prayers and aspirations. If not, his protestations will be simply another set of politically or ideologically based protestations that will do little to advance better relations during either the short or the long run.
Edited by DMD (03/24/12 01:20 AM)
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#377989 - 03/24/12 02:57 AM
Re: Gk-Catholic Patriarch: Orthodox connivance with Stalin undermi
[Re: Tomassus]
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Member
Registered: 03/29/05
Posts: 38
Loc: Madison, WI
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DMD,
Thank you for sharing. I found your post informative and insightful.
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#377993 - 03/24/12 03:04 PM
Re: Gk-Catholic Patriarch: Orthodox connivance with Stalin undermi
[Re: orthodoxsinner2]
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Member
Registered: 11/11/01
Posts: 1587
Loc: PA
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Forgiveness, Christian Charity, and love are the solutions to what divides us.
True, but the devil, as always, is in the details. Can you elaborate? I do not see why our relations have to be so bad. We need to have mutual respect, love and forgiveness all around. The RO feel wronged as do the UGCC so how hard is it to look at our own actions from the other's point of view and ask for mutual forgiveness? What is to be gained by polemics and alienating one another? You asked a good, logical question. The answer is that our human weakness overcomes our spiritual intentions. Patriarchs, archbishops and bishops who request forgiveness for offenses will be severely chastised by their "sheep," turned on and emotionally and publicly tortured by their "righteous" flocks. Hospodi pomiluj.
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#378008 - 03/25/12 01:05 AM
Re: Gk-Catholic Patriarch: Orthodox connivance with Stalin undermi
[Re: Nelson Chase]
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Member
Registered: 05/07/09
Posts: 1219
Loc: Texas/USA
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Sincere apologies are the lubricants which make forgiveness, Christian charity and love operate effectively.
I'd like to see credible spokespersons (!) of the Orthodox Church declare, without any reservations whatsoever, that we Greek Catholics have the right to exist and that our legitimacy is recognised by them.
We're gonna keep right on being and doing even if they don't but it'd be nice if they did.
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#378018 - 03/25/12 10:32 AM
Re: Gk-Catholic Patriarch: Orthodox connivance with Stalin undermi
[Re: Tomassus]
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Global Moderator
Member
Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 9548
Loc: Massachusetts
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Rome, and the Major Archbishop, can not expect forgiveness and charity to be a one way street. A symbolic gesture coming from Rome, such as the posthumous lifting of excommunications issued against men like St. Alexis Toth, Bishop Orestes Chornock of thrice blessed memory and my own grandfathers and many other pious, albeit perhaps hot-headed men and women who faced the same fate during those tumultuous times certainly would be viewed by many within the Orthodox world as a sign of Rome's recognition that reconciliation is indeed a two way street.
I can freely say this as well as a faithful son of the Carpatho-Rusyn people and a relative of Blessed Paul Goidich on my paternal grandmothers side of the family, who died in a Slovak prison for his refusal to submit to the forced liquidation of the Greek Catholic Church. I recall how profoundly moved many were when the late Metropolitan Nicholas of ACROD proclaimed the Synaxis of the Orthodox Saints of Carpatho-Rus (including St. Alexis Kabuliak, St. Maxym Sandovych and St. Alexis of Wilkes-Barre) and in the same proclamation asked that, while it was not possible to commemorate them liturgically on that event, for the faithful of ACROD to remember men like Blessed Paul and Blessed Theodor Rhomza in their prayers as men of faith who gave their lives to the struggle to preserve their time honored traditions from the efforts of those who would seek to assimilate them.
I can also freely say this because in America over the past twenty five years the Orthodox and Greek Catholic Rusyn Americans and their hierarchs have made great strides to heal the pain caused by the actions in past decades - all without any requirement that either admit error in their faith or where they are today as a result of that turmoil.
I can also say this as the son and brother of Orthodox priests, the father of a future priest, and the cousin of a Greek Catholic cantor, a Greek Catholic priest and a Greek Catholic nun in Slovakia - and a former Orthodox seminarian and Orthodox youth leader with ties to Ukraine and Slovakia who now is living in southern Poland.
Many of us, and our families have indeed 'walked the walk' and I believe that it gives those of us in such a position the right to voice a heartfelt, if provocative opinion on these matter. David, Excellent post, my friend! And, I'd term it realistic rather than provocative. In reading the histories of the times of division here in the US, I sense perceptions of self-betrayal and righteous anger at such, I see only the rarest of instances in which those who separated did so with rancor or for selfish reasons. It's all well and good to claim that those who separated should have checked their anger and accepted the demands of those placed in hierarchical authority over them. However, had they done so, I very much suspect that we - all of us, Eastern Catholic and Orthodox, in the diaspora - would today be members of churches that would be distinguished from other Catholic parishes only by ethnic terminology on the signs outside our temples. Many years, Neil
_________________________
"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."
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#378022 - 03/25/12 01:50 PM
Patriarch Sviatoslav has already suggested mutual forgiveness.
[Re: DMD]
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Member
Registered: 03/19/05
Posts: 801
Loc: Northeastern Pennsylvania
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Head of UGCC would like to meet with Patriarch Kirill to relieve tension http://risu.org.ua/en/index/all_news/confessional/interchurch_relations/41567/1 April 2011, 13:20 | Interchurch relations In an interview to Left Bank, in response to the question whether he would like to meet with Patriarch Kirill and what he would say to him, the new head of the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church, Patriarch Sviatoslav, said that the best way to communicate is to be open in a brotherly dialogue, be open to the purification of our memory, to ask for forgiveness and to forgive. "I would like very much to visit him and hold a personal meeting with him. I am convinced that in peacefully and openly communicating with each other, we can relieve any tension. "Our church has voiced its readiness and openness for a dialogue ever since it emerged from the underground. I remember how Patriarch Ivan Lubachivskyi, who ordained me, after he moved to Ukraine, said: 'We forgive and ask for forgiveness.' It was a very deep call to reconciliation on his part. It was in the 1990s, at the time of the strongest confrontation, particularly in western Ukraine. There was the will for reconciliation on our part. Later, His Beatitude Lubomyr confirmed and repeated the same in the presence of Pope John Paul II who visited Ukraine. "I think that today, we should heal the wounds rather than irritate and deepen them. One can heal the wounds of our memory only with mutual forgiveness. Therefore, as for any our brethren or neighbors who wounded us or were wounded by us, the best way to communicate is to be open in a brotherly dialogue, be open to the purification of our memory, to ask for forgiveness and to forgive," said Patriarch Sviatoslav.
Edited by Pavloosh (03/25/12 01:51 PM)
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