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#377907 - 03/22/12 12:41 AM Russian Catholic Old Believers
Nelson Chase Offline
Member

Registered: 01/13/09
Posts: 875
Loc: Fatherhood
Glory to Jesus Christ!

I was wondering if anyone could provide information on the Russian Catholic Old Believers. I saw on another post that there were two old believer priests, Fr. Evstachy Susalev and Fr. Potapy Emlianov, but I hoping some could shed some light on this interesting subject.

Thanks and pray for me.

Nelson

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#377912 - 03/22/12 11:40 AM Re: Russian Catholic Old Believers [Re: Nelson Chase]
Irish Melkite Offline
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Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 9872
Loc: Massachusetts
Nelson,

What would you like to know?

I've written a very brief history of what's known about the Katolicheskaja Stariobriodtsi at the directory section which lists their known temples.

You can click on the US link below the article for a brief entry on the history of the sole community known to have ever existed in the diaspora, that formerly at Mt Angel, OR. Clicking on the Russian link will take you to maps of the locations for the two suppressed pre-Revolution parishes. I'm in the process of trying to identify which of the current parishes in the Russian Byzantine Ordinariate is the one which serves according to the Old Rituals - the last surviving such community known to exist.

Many years,

Neil
_________________________
"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."

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#377920 - 03/22/12 02:07 PM Re: Russian Catholic Old Believers [Re: Nelson Chase]
Diak Offline
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Registered: 03/24/02
Posts: 7438
Loc: Kansas/UGCC
Nelson, I suggest contacting Fr. Sergey Golovanov of Omsk and Fr. Andrei Udovenko in Moscow. They are the most likely to have an idea of who or what is left.

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#377922 - 03/22/12 02:50 PM Re: Russian Catholic Old Believers [Re: Nelson Chase]
Irish Melkite Offline
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Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 9872
Loc: Massachusetts
Deacon Randy,

Do you happen to know which one of the current parishes in Russia is the one serving according to the Old Ritual?

Many years,

Neil
_________________________
"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."

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#377923 - 03/22/12 03:50 PM Re: Russian Catholic Old Believers [Re: Irish Melkite]
Diak Offline
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Registered: 03/24/02
Posts: 7438
Loc: Kansas/UGCC
I don't know, and would defer to either Fr. Sergey or Fr. Andrei.

I do have some contacts in our UGCC Exarchate of Donetsk-Kharkiv which covers the historical area of Fr. Patapy's former parish of Nizhny Bohdanovka. It is not much more than a crossroads now due north of Luhansk' in Luhansk' Oblast. Perhaps someone can see if any of the descendants are still about.

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#377948 - 03/23/12 04:27 AM Re: Russian Catholic Old Believers [Re: Irish Melkite]
Nelson Chase Offline
Member

Registered: 01/13/09
Posts: 875
Loc: Fatherhood
Christ is among us!

Quote:
What would you like to know?

I've written a very brief history of what's known about the Katolicheskaja Stariobriodtsi at the directory section which lists their known temples.


Thanks Neil that was a very informative history.

Quote:

You can click on the US link below the article for a brief entry on the history of the sole community known to have ever existed in the diaspora, that formerly at Mt Angel, OR.


Wow! I didn't know they were Catholic Old Believers in Oregon!! I might have to make a trip up to the monastery and see the chapel and museum.

Is the lay monastic, Brother Ambrose, who served the community still alive?


Edited by Nelson Chase (03/23/12 04:31 AM)

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#377949 - 03/23/12 04:29 AM Re: Russian Catholic Old Believers [Re: Diak]
Nelson Chase Offline
Member

Registered: 01/13/09
Posts: 875
Loc: Fatherhood
Quote:
Nelson, I suggest contacting Fr. Sergey Golovanov of Omsk and Fr. Andrei Udovenko in Moscow. They are the most likely to have an idea of who or what is left.


How I would do that Fr. Deacon? I would be interested.

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#377951 - 03/23/12 05:42 AM Re: Russian Catholic Old Believers [Re: Nelson Chase]
griego catolico Offline
Member

Registered: 12/10/01
Posts: 1201
Loc: Sunny California
Originally Posted By: Nelson Chase
Quote:
Nelson, I suggest contacting Fr. Sergey Golovanov of Omsk and Fr. Andrei Udovenko in Moscow. They are the most likely to have an idea of who or what is left.


How I would do that Fr. Deacon? I would be interested.


Look no further...

Fr. Andrei Udovenko in Moscow:

Приход Св. апостолов Петра и Андрея

Настоятель: прот. Андрей Удовенко

V 107207 г. Москва, ул.Чечулина 13 (дом сс.Матери Терезы)

Δ 107207 г. Москва, ул. Чусовская, 11, корп. 6, кв.6

тел. +7 495 467-84-71, E-mail: obshina@orc.ru

Source: http://www.rkcvo.ru/node/53


Fr. Sergey Golovanov of Omsk:

http://sergeyvgolovanov.narod.ru/

http://sergiusvg.livejournal.com/

golovanovcv@mail.ru

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergey_Golovanov

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#377964 - 03/23/12 02:17 PM Re: Russian Catholic Old Believers [Re: Nelson Chase]
Irish Melkite Offline
Global Moderator
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Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 9872
Loc: Massachusetts
Originally Posted By: Nelson Chase
Thanks Neil that was a very informative history


Thank you. However, it's inaccurate in one detail, which I'll be fixing either tonight or this weekend. In looking on-line last night to verify, in reply to your query, whether Brother Ambrose was still living, I discovered a Russian language reference to the Abbey that offered a bit of information new to me. (Or, perhaps better put, confirmed something I once read but dismissed as coincidence.)

The common wisdom, embraced by myself, by Father Serge, of blessed memory, and, I believe, also by Deacon Randy, has always been that Hieromonk Feodor (Palczynski), MIC, reposed during his time at the Abbey, serving the Catholic Old Ritualists.

A few years back, I read something on-line which referred to a Father Theodore (Palczynski). MIC, serving one of the Eastern Catholic temples (Slovak, I think, don't remember the specifics any longer) in Canada during the '70s. At the time, I put it aside as a coincidence, although I thought it quite interesting that there would be two Marianist priests of the same name serving in North America contemporaneously.

However, according to the piece that I read last night (which I neglected to bookmark and now am having difficulty finding again), Hieromonk Feodor was apparently reassigned by his superiors in 1976, about a dozen years after his arrival at Mt Angel. So, thereafter, it was left to Brother Ambrose to shepherd the community as best he could. This being in addition to continuing his secular missions of mercy on behalf of the entire population, Catholic and Orthodox, priested and priestless.

The same piece establishes 2004 as the point in time when the Chapel was suppressed as an active temple.

An overview of the history of the Old Believers by Brother Ambrose can be read here.

Quote:
Wow! I didn't know they were Catholic Old Believers in Oregon!! I might have to make a trip up to the monastery and see the chapel and museum.


Nelson,

If you do go, try and schedule it so that you get to take advantage of possibly also enjoying some one of the very excellent selections of spiritual and cultural programs that the Abbey sponsors each year. Check the Abbey's website - where you will, unfortunately, find no reference to the Chapel or the Old Believer museum.

But, if you go, and I hope you do, take your camera. I want an interior photo of the chapel ... please! There are, as far as I know, none to be found on-line.

You might also have the opportunity to see some of the iconography of Brother Claude Lane, OSB, another member of the Abbey community. Although Brother Claude produces some, regretably Westernized icons, his works which adhere to the Eastern tradition are very beautiful and edifying.

Quote:
Is the lay monastic, Brother Ambrose, who served the community still alive?


As far as I know, yes. Last on-line reference to him that I've seen was about a year ago, in a blog entry by someone who traveled through the area and visited the Abbey. His name has not appeared in the obituaries of the monastic community which appear in the Abbey's quarterly newsletters.

In this thread, which Tom initiated last summer, you can see a contemporary photo of Brother Ambrose, as well as a photo of him in his younger days, being greeted by Pope John Paul II.

Brother Ambrose will be 78 years old this summer and will have been professed for 56 years a couple of weeks from now (April 3). So, he was a relatively young monk, about 30 or so years old, when he first became involved with the Old Believers. May God grant many more, blessed, years to His faithful servant, the Monk Ambrose, who can probably honestly claim to be the sole surviving Russian Catholic Old Believer in the US.

Many years,

Neil
_________________________
"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."

Top
#378005 - 03/24/12 11:29 PM Re: Russian Catholic Old Believers [Re: Irish Melkite]
Nelson Chase Offline
Member

Registered: 01/13/09
Posts: 875
Loc: Fatherhood
Quote:

Nelson,

If you do go, try and schedule it so that you get to take advantage of possibly also enjoying some one of the very excellent selections of spiritual and cultural programs that the Abbey sponsors each year. Check the Abbey's website - where you will, unfortunately, find no reference to the Chapel or the Old Believer museum.


I think this is a trip that I am going to try to make. I am in Southern California so it is not out of the question. I even could meet our good friend Dave Brown if I went up there. If I do get there I will bring my camera and take a picture of the inside of the chapel.

Quote:
As far as I know, yes. Last on-line reference to him that I've seen was about a year ago, in a blog entry by someone who traveled through the area and visited the Abbey. His name has not appeared in the obituaries of the monastic community which appear in the Abbey's quarterly newsletters.

In this thread, which Tom initiated last summer, you can see a contemporary photo of Brother Ambrose, as well as a photo of him in his younger days, being greeted by Pope John Paul II.

Brother Ambrose will be 78 years old this summer and will have been professed for 56 years a couple of weeks from now (April 3). So, he was a relatively young monk, about 30 or so years old, when he first became involved with the Old Believers. May God grant many more, blessed, years to His faithful servant, the Monk Ambrose, who can probably honestly claim to be the sole surviving Russian Catholic Old Believer in the US.


I think it would be fabulous to meet Brother Ambrose. I imagine he would have some amazing stories to tell about the Old Believers.

This whole idea of Russian Catholic Old Believers has really caught my interest.


Edited by Nelson Chase (03/24/12 11:30 PM)

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#378038 - 03/26/12 01:36 AM Re: Russian Catholic Old Believers [Re: Nelson Chase]
John of Patmos Offline
Member

Registered: 03/15/12
Posts: 42
Loc: Earth
I found this:
Their chief stronghold is the Rogozhsky quarter in Moscow, where they have their great cemetery, monastery, cathedral, church, and chapels. In 1863, at the time of the Polish insurrection the Raskolnik archbishop and his lay advisers sent out an encyclical letter to the "Holy Catholic Apostolic Church of the Old Believers", supporting the tsar and declaring that on all main points they were in agreement with the Established Church. This again split their Church into two factions which last to this day: the Okruzhniki or Encyclicalists and the Razdorniki or Controversialists, who denied the points of agreement with the national Church. In addition to this the Established Church has now set up a section of these Raskolniks in union with it, but has permitted them to keep all their peculiar practices, and these are called the Yedinovertsi or "Uniates". A great many of the controversial section of the Raskolniks are coming into the Catholic Church, and already some eight or ten priests have been received.

From Catholic Encyclopedia
I wish many more Old Believers would become Catholic! cool

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#378043 - 03/26/12 03:04 AM Re: Russian Catholic Old Believers [Re: Nelson Chase]
Irish Melkite Offline
Global Moderator
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Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 9872
Loc: Massachusetts
John,

Realize that the term 'Uniates', as used in the quoted piece, referred to the Edinovertsie - those Old Believers who 'united' with the Russian Orthodox Church under its provision that allowed them to retain their praxis - not to 'Uniates' as the term is more commonly used in speaking of those from mainstream Orthodoxy who united with Rome.

As regards the sentence which you've bolded in red, I have no idea where Andrew Shipman (author of the article) got his numbers, but nothing that I've read suggests that 8 to 10 Edinovertsie priests entered communion.

The Servant of God Father Patapios (Emilianov), and the 852 adults who entered communion with him, were from the ROC's Edinovertsie parish in Nizhnaja Bogdanovka. However, he is the sole Edinovertsie presbyter identified by name as having done so. (The Servant of God Father Eustachios (Susalev) was a presbyter of the Popovotsy (priested) Old Believers, not the Edinovertsie.)

Some texts suggest that there were a few other Old Believer presbyters among those who gathered around Blessed Exarch Leonid. There are also indications that, in general, Edinovertsie faithful were, for reasons that are unclear, more attracted to the idea of entering communion than were Popovotsy. However, I strongly suspect that Shipman's figures are, at the very least, double the actual number of Edinovertsie clergy who did so.

Many years,

Neil
_________________________
"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."

Top
#378051 - 03/26/12 11:20 AM Re: Russian Catholic Old Believers [Re: Nelson Chase]
latinmasstrad Offline
Member

Registered: 06/15/09
Posts: 36
Loc: Saint Cloud, Minnesota
According to Pavel Parfentiev's biography of Mother Catherine Abrikosova, T.O.P., Father Yevstafii Susalev converted to Catholicism as an informant for the Tsarist secret police. This did not become known until after the February Revolution. In retaliation, Blessed Leonid expelled Father Yevstafii from the Exarchate.

Father Potapy Emelianov could not have been more different. I have a very deep regard for his memory and hope to meet him face to face one day. An Russian language article about Father Potapy by Pavel Parfentiev may be read at the following link: http://catholicmartyrs.org/index.php?mod=pages&page=emelyanovarticle

Many Years,
Brendan

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#378056 - 03/26/12 03:06 PM Re: Russian Catholic Old Believers [Re: latinmasstrad]
Irish Melkite Offline
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Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 9872
Loc: Massachusetts
Originally Posted By: latinmasstrad
According to Pavel Parfentiev's biography of Mother Catherine Abrikosova, T.O.P., Father Yevstafii Susalev converted to Catholicism as an informant for the Tsarist secret police. This did not become known until after the February Revolution. In retaliation, Blessed Leonid expelled Father Yevstafii from the Exarchate.


Brendan,

I've only ever seen this allegation made once previously and that was also by someone citing Parfentiev. Do you have any idea on what evidence Parfentiev based this charge?

Many years,

Neil
_________________________
"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."

Top
#378057 - 03/26/12 03:14 PM Re: Russian Catholic Old Believers [Re: latinmasstrad]
Irish Melkite Offline
Global Moderator
Member

Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 9872
Loc: Massachusetts
Originally Posted By: latinmasstrad
An Russian language article about Father Potapy by Pavel Parfentiev may be read at the following link: http://catholicmartyrs.org/index.php?mod=pages&page=emelyanovarticle


An English language translation is available at http://en.catholicmartyrs.org/index.php?mod=pages&page=emelyanov

Many years,

Neil
_________________________
"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."

Top
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