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#378181 - 03/30/12 05:53 PM
Midnight Pascha - which traditions?
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Member
Registered: 08/05/10
Posts: 617
Loc: California
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Just curious, is there any type of reason why some churches have late/mid night Pascha services, and others have it on Sunday morning?
I ask because my brother, who is attending an Orthodox church, asked if my Ruthenian church had the midnight service. We don't, but I'm not sure why.
Is it a cultural tendency or something else?
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#378183 - 03/30/12 07:43 PM
Re: Midnight Pascha - which traditions?
[Re: jjp]
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Member
Registered: 05/20/10
Posts: 309
Loc: Texas USA
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Our Byzantine (Ruthenian) community is having a midnight Divine Liturgy preceded by Paschal Matins and followed by a community meal.
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#378187 - 03/30/12 10:16 PM
Re: Midnight Pascha - which traditions?
[Re: jjp]
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Member
Registered: 09/09/03
Posts: 102
Loc: southern USA
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The custom of celebrating Pascha Orthros at midnight has become almost universal for most Byzantine Orthodox traditions, including Greeks, Antiochians, OCA, ROCOR, Ukrainian Orthodox (well, at least some of their churches), etc.
Curiously, I recently inquired into the practice about the 'proper' time myself. According to the Typikon of St. Sabbas (chapter 50), which is still followed in most Slav Orthodox Churches, the para-ecclesiarch starts preparing for the service at the second hour of the morning, i.e., somewhere around two hours after sunrise. But, I guess that most no longer follow this prescription.
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#378188 - 03/30/12 10:26 PM
Re: Midnight Pascha - which traditions?
[Re: jjp]
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Member
Registered: 02/01/09
Posts: 349
Loc: California
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I think it is practical - when can you get people to show up? We have a very small parish, populated by a combination of elderly and young families. The elderly often do not drive at night, and the young families have to get their kids to bed.
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#378189 - 03/30/12 10:30 PM
Re: Midnight Pascha - which traditions?
[Re: babochka]
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Moderator
Member
Registered: 01/12/03
Posts: 10225
Loc: USA
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I think it is practical - when can you get people to show up? We have a very small parish, populated by a combination of elderly and young families. The elderly often do not drive at night, and the young families have to get their kids to bed. Makes sense.
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#378191 - 03/31/12 12:46 AM
Re: Midnight Pascha - which traditions?
[Re: catholicsacristan]
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Member
Registered: 05/01/09
Posts: 1211
Loc: Upstate New York
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The custom of celebrating Pascha Orthros at midnight has become almost universal for most Byzantine Orthodox traditions, including Greeks, Antiochians, OCA, ROCOR, Ukrainian Orthodox (well, at least some of their churches), etc.
Curiously, I recently inquired into the practice about the 'proper' time myself. According to the Typikon of St. Sabbas (chapter 50), which is still followed in most Slav Orthodox Churches, the para-ecclesiarch starts preparing for the service at the second hour of the morning, i.e., somewhere around two hours after sunrise. But, I guess that most no longer follow this prescription. Thank you for pointing that out - my father often referred to that and ACROD probably stands alone in not rushing to the midnight Paschal Liturgy although it is happening like a rising tide that won't abate. I know a woman from St. Michael's here who is from Slovakia and she is going to her mother's village near Ladimirova for Holy Week and Easter and to help her mom plant the potatoes! - This is where the ROCOR first located after the Revolution and the home village of the late Metropolitan Laurus. There are more Orthodox in that region than elsewhere in Slovakia. She told me just this afternoon that in her village the Orthodox Church Liturgy will be around 10 am preceded by the Matins and blessing of Baskets like it was when she was a child there. They have been Orthodox there since the 1920's. Just like what had been the long standing custom in the states - including the Metropolia/OCA until the 'midnight madness', as some call it, came to be popularized under the guise that it is 'holier' and 'more venerable' amd 'more Orthodox'. To me that is a lot of pious posturing. I don't disrespect and I recognize that it is the practice of many in the Orthodox world but that doesn't make it the universal modality. The local UOC-USA parish 'switched' for a few years until the priest realized that many of his flock were heading to the nearby ACROD parishes in the morning instead of his midnight.
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#378213 - 03/31/12 06:25 PM
Re: Midnight Pascha - which traditions?
[Re: jjp]
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Member
Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 224
Loc: NE PA by way of AZ
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We should honor local traditions regarding the celebrating of Pascha. However, scripturally speaking the Lord was risen in the dark morning hours i.e. we read in the gospels that the myrrh bearing women arrived at the tomb of Christ before the break of dawn and found that Christ had already risen. Therefore, IMHO, the practice of midnight matins followed by the Paschal Divine Liturgy seems to me the best time to celebrate such an event. However, some celebrate Matins at midnight and then come back in the morning for Liturgy. Matthew 28:1-8. After the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the tomb. And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it. His countenance was like lightning, and his raiment white as snow: and for fear of him the guards did shake, and became as dead men. And the angel answered and said unto the women, Fear not ye: for I know that ye seek Jesus Who was crucified. He is not here: for He is risen, as He said. Come, see the place where the Lord lay. And go quickly, and tell His disciples that He is risen from the dead; and, behold, He goeth before you into Galilee; there shall ye see Him: lo, I have told you. And they departed quickly from the tomb with fear and great joy; and did run to bring His disciples word.
"After the sabbath" means the same thing that Luke said, "at deep dawn," and that Mark said, "very early in the morning at the rising of the sun" (Lk. 24:1, Mk.l6:2). By "sun" we should understand here "the first dawning rays of the sun." For by the eighth hour of the night it is the beginning of the next day, and it already feels like morning. So it was then, after the sabbath, at the beginning of Sunday which the evangelist calls "the first day of the sabbath." As "sabbath" is the name they gave also to the seven days of the week when considered together, so Sunday, the Lord’s day, [in Greek, kyriake] is "the first day of the sabbath," that is, the first day of the week. Following the first day are the Second, the Third, the Fourth and the Fifth. When the Lord rose, the stone was still in place against the tomb. Therefore, after the Lord had risen, the angel came to roll away the stone and give the women entrance into the tomb. There was an earthquake so that the guards would wake up and learn of this new and wondrous occurrence. ---St. Theophylact
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#378281 - 04/02/12 04:51 PM
Re: Midnight Pascha - which traditions?
[Re: jjp]
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Member
Registered: 08/05/10
Posts: 617
Loc: California
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I was under the impression that it was a Greek tradition, and maybe Antiochian? It seems pretty clear that it's not particularly Slavic/Russian (each generalization with certain exceptions, to be sure).
Interesting. I have a separate question related to Holy Week in a similar context, but I'll start a separate thread for it.
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#378283 - 04/02/12 04:57 PM
Re: Midnight Pascha - which traditions?
[Re: jjp]
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Member
Registered: 01/27/02
Posts: 1968
Loc: Sharon/Hermitage, PA
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I once read (on this Forum?) that splitting Resurrection Matins and Liturgy was a practice of the Studite Typikon, which held on in certain parts of Europe, notably in the old Austro-Hungarian Empire.
I have experienced both styles of Pascha, and I can see positives and negatives for both. There is a certain "feel" to doing everything at Midnight that cannot be replicated by holding each service at different times. Then again, splitting up the services does make them more manageable and less exhausting for priest and singer alike. That being said, I really think the preferred schedule depends upon the given parish community, the location of the church building, and so forth.
One of the sad things is that, regardless of which tradition is followed, people will always "pick and choose" which services they attend, or how much they will attend. We all know the stories of churches that are packed at the stroke of midnight, only to be emptied by the start of Liturgy. Or of churches which have Paschal Vespers and an Egg Hunt for kids on Easter Sunday morning--giving the (unintended!) impression that kids don't need to come to the midnight services or receive the Eucharist on Pascha. On the flip side, many churches which celebrate Matins on Saturday evening and Liturgy on Sunday morning will have only a few people present for Matins, and a full church for Liturgy. So, in any case, you can't seem to win them all. We'll just try our best!
Fr. David
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