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This is a branch out topic from my other one. I guess I'm seeking to speak with an Orthodox priest because the Church where I am in, I don't think I'm finding what I am looking for. I'm sure I want to live the Eastern faith. Maybe I'm just being stubborn or maybe I'm just buying into this romanticized view by what I perceive from my interactions online, but I feel that where I am at now is not authentically Eastern enough. And yes there are efforts to return to the older traditions, but there are certain things that it seems is not part of this return. I don't know if I even want to enumerate them, it might be disrespectful of my current home.

I'm thinking, am I just being stubborn and looking for something that shouldn't be there? Is my view of the Eastern faith still too idealistic or even romanticized? Or do I have a valid concern about where I am right now and perhaps it is time to move on?

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Seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you. ~ Matthew 6:33
It seems to me that the only thing you should be looking for in a church is Jesus Christ. Seek the LORD, and you will find everything you need.

I don't mean to be flippant when I say this, or to disregard your spiritual journey. But too often I hear people (in every Christian tradition) say "This church isn't _____ enough for me." Are you looking for _____, or are you looking for the Risen Lord?

Seek the Lord, and you will find what you are looking for. It may be that God will grant you eyes to see where you are in a new light; or it may be that God will lead you elsewhere.

There is no "perfect" church; there is no wholly "authentic" church. There is, however, the Church of Jesus Christ: one, holy, catholic, and apostolic. And the Church is filled with humans, fallible, mistaken, arrogant, beautiful, and glorious.

Are the Mysteries celebrated with reverence? Is the Gospel proclaimed with fidelity? Do the people love and serve the Lord?
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Your heavenly Father knows that ye have need of all these things. But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

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What a great post, Alicia!

Many years,

Neil


"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."
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Wonderful post indeed.

My concern here is that I need to discern if what I feel is a genuine concern, or is it just my own pride.

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Dear Constantine TG,
This is a very interesting question. I'm kinda asking myself the same question right now. I do recognize that Alicia's response is quite good. I guess what I want to say is that your question is very relevant and you should discuss this with your spiritual father.
Although there is no perfect Church, there is certainly one when you will feel more "at home"...

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As disciples of our Master we need to look at His example.

Was he content with the leaders of the Temple and synagogue? Did His apostles fill all the requirements that He was expecting?

May the Holy Spirit help you to discern whether the blessings you have received are enough.

Christ is risen!

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I am aware of the desire to worship more authentically Eastern and that there may be an appeal to finding a place to do so. I do not want to start an argument, but I personally can not understand how one would cease to be united to the Bishop of Rome, just because he thought that he/she was getting a more authentic form of tradition/liturgy. And to prove I do not want to be argumentative here, I would say the same thing to an Orthodox. Why would you become Catholic (if there were something within Catholicism that appealed to you, maybe Latin Mass, or chanting or something) if you knew you did not believe in some of the unique claims of the Bishop of Rome.
Meaning, to me, one's perception of what is true should guide them more than what 'feels' feeds there soul more.
And in this path I am also concerned with the idea of people letting themselves be convinced of something in their mind because their heart is sort of cheering for something else. Meaning, when deciding what exactly you believe about the Bishop of Rome and how essential you really believe that it is try to decide purely in a prayerful, careful and honest way, and do not let your mind be changed because you are more emotionally vulnerable to the change. That is, don't just end up seeing what you want to see, or letting your mind be changed because you want it to.
And again, I would say that same thing to an Orthodox or Catholic person. The main reason one would belong to either Church is because of what they believe is true.
I personally do believe in the unique claims of the office of Rome (though I hope that one day we will learn how to re-explain or alter our understanding of it in order to achieve complete unity) - so therefore, even if my Church became extremely latinized in a way that I did not like, and there were an Orthodox Church a few blocks away that held the most meaningful liturgies I could imagine, I could not see myself changing. Though I may go to the OC for some Vespers or simple holy day services. smile My two cents.

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Originally Posted by searching east
I am aware of the desire to worship more authentically Eastern and that there may be an appeal to finding a place to do so. I do not want to start an argument, but I personally can not understand how one would cease to be united to the Bishop of Rome, just because he thought that he/she was getting a more authentic form of tradition/liturgy. And to prove I do not want to be argumentative here, I would say the same thing to an Orthodox. Why would you become Catholic (if there were something within Catholicism that appealed to you, maybe Latin Mass, or chanting or something) if you knew you did not believe in some of the unique claims of the Bishop of Rome.
Meaning, to me, one's perception of what is true should guide them more than what 'feels' feeds there soul more.
And in this path I am also concerned with the idea of people letting themselves be convinced of something in their mind because their heart is sort of cheering for something else. Meaning, when deciding what exactly you believe about the Bishop of Rome and how essential you really believe that it is try to decide purely in a prayerful, careful and honest way, and do not let your mind be changed because you are more emotionally vulnerable to the change. That is, don't just end up seeing what you want to see, or letting your mind be changed because you want it to.
And again, I would say that same thing to an Orthodox or Catholic person. The main reason one would belong to either Church is because of what they believe is true.
I personally do believe in the unique claims of the office of Rome (though I hope that one day we will learn how to re-explain or alter our understanding of it in order to achieve complete unity) - so therefore, even if my Church became extremely latinized in a way that I did not like, and there were an Orthodox Church a few blocks away that held the most meaningful liturgies I could imagine, I could not see myself changing. Though I may go to the OC for some Vespers or simple holy day services. smile My two cents.
Seems that you have many answers in one single post. Nonetheless, IMHO praying and speaking with a spiritual father is important in the decision process.... I'm not trying to outsmart you in anyway or being disrespectful. Your points are all good, but to me( and maybe only to me) it looks too cerebral( brainy).

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But isn't "seeking the Lord" the same justification why some go to Protestantism, or even the pseudo-Christian sects like SDAs and Mormonism? Claiming to find God there?

How do I know that the path I choose, or being led to, is the right path?

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I would say that, if it's within the Orthodox, Catholic family of Churches, then you are seeking the Lord within the household of faith.

It may well be true that your personal pride has something to do with your desire to go looking elsewhere, but there is nothing to say that the Lord can not use that to help you.

For a while, I was in an RC parish where my faith was dying. I mean really, really dying. And I was getting angry. Yet it was precisely this anger that saw me fight against what could have become spiritual lethargy and ultimate surrender, and saw me return to the Eastern Church.

In other words, what could have been a vice, was transformed into one of the greatest blessings of my life. Keep offering up your situation and seeking wise counsel, but - as long as you are looking in different rooms of the same house, and doing so with love, then even your pride can be the impetus to a renewal of faith in another community.

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Originally Posted by ConstantineTG
But isn't "seeking the Lord" the same justification why some go to Protestantism, or even the pseudo-Christian sects like SDAs and Mormonism? Claiming to find God there?

How do I know that the path I choose, or being led to, is the right path?

This is why several people have recommended you turn to a "spiritual father," someone who can shepherd you and guide you in your faith.

And, no, that person won't tell you which direction to go, won't "make" you go to a particular church tradition. Rather, he will listen to you, ask questions, suggest readings and disciplines, pray with you, pray for you, and help you "test" the directions you want to take.

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Originally Posted by Penthaetria
Originally Posted by ConstantineTG
But isn't "seeking the Lord" the same justification why some go to Protestantism, or even the pseudo-Christian sects like SDAs and Mormonism? Claiming to find God there?

How do I know that the path I choose, or being led to, is the right path?

This is why several people have recommended you turn to a "spiritual father," someone who can shepherd you and guide you in your faith.

And, no, that person won't tell you which direction to go, won't "make" you go to a particular church tradition. Rather, he will listen to you, ask questions, suggest readings and disciplines, pray with you, pray for you, and help you "test" the directions you want to take.


I've been looking for a Spiritual Father in the Church I am in right now, but have found no one. I've been hoping for a couple but it hasn't happened. Now I have an Orthodox priest willing to sit down with me, at a time I have these angry feelings. I don't know if it is a wolf in sheep's clothing (or as St. Paul writes, even the devil can disguise as an angel of light), or if this is indeed God's will.

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I have had a similar situation myself the last year or so, with my mother and brother being drawn to Eastern Catholicism, and my father being drawn to Eastern Orthodoxy, and all seeking my advice (I am myself a new Byzantine Rusyn Catholic who strongly considered becoming Russian Orthodox).

Not being equipped to give such advice myself, I have tried to direct them to discussion and discernment with various priests, and to prayerfully read certain writings of both East and West. I do agree that intellectual exploration of each one's theology, liturgy, and history is crucial, but I also agree that you need to find a liturgy you experience as an icon of heavenly worship--it's more both/and than either/or as far as the head/heart distinction is concerned in discernment.

My lack of skill in directing my family aside, I have found myself frequently of the position that ultimately it doesn't matter whether any one of them becomes Catholic or Orthodox (I pray to God I am right!) I admit that I do see both the Catholic and Orthodox Church as "faithful-enough" to Holy Tradition to be "authentic" churches. However, I also realize they can't both be right--and I'll be honest that I think the Orthodox Church has the better historical argument, though that does not necessarily justify them from breaking wholly from the Bishop of Rome. (I know Rome issued the first excommunication, and the subsequent mess--I'll avoid getting mired down in the history here or I'd have to write a whole book).

Anyway...all that is to say I believe God's grace can operate through both, and, for whatever reason God might do so, God may call us from one to another without a clear sense of which is "right". At some point we simply have to make a decision, though there is a chronic underdetermination of evidence. Growing up I was an anti-Catholic "non-denominational" Protestant who converted to Episcopalianism in college, and even began ordaining for the priesthood, before deciding to become Catholic or Orthodox. I'm still not clear which one I "should have" joined, but I had to join one or the other, so had to act and place myself in God's grace. Indeed, I always already was in God's grace, as I can see now that God used even a clearly-wrong church as a means to get me to where I am now. In your situation, I would say things aren't as easy as the choice I had between Episcopalian and Catholic/Orthodox, but perhaps the reason is that the latter are both so close to Holy Tradition that they are both "authentic enough"?

That being said, I will also throw a curve-ball at you than I had thrown at me by Bishop Kallistos Ware in The Orthodox Church, and one which I am still ruminating on. There cannot be schisms within the Church, only schisms from the Church, because the Church is the body of Christ and cannot be divided. Perhaps I am too "wishy-washy" in my view of the Catholic and Orthodox Church. I can't say.

What I can say though is this: ultimately work your faith out "with fear and trembling", and much prayer, and God's grace will be enough to cover all sins or digressions. As long as you are not like Lewis's "connoisseur of churches", constantly jumping to the "greener grass", I trust God will know your faith and desire. Like the wayward soldier in Lewis's The Last Battle, God will know the sincerity of your faith and the true object of your desire, and His love will overcome any wayward digressions that you fear you might have made along the way. Speak with the Orthodox priest, as well as with your current priest, and trust God will work in spite of and even through your uncertainty (or pride), and keep you faithful to Holy Tradition.

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Originally Posted by ConstantineTG
I've been looking for a Spiritual Father in the Church I am in right now, but have found no one. I've been hoping for a couple but it hasn't happened. Now I have an Orthodox priest willing to sit down with me, at a time I have these angry feelings. I don't know if it is a wolf in sheep's clothing (or as St. Paul writes, even the devil can disguise as an angel of light), or if this is indeed God's will.

I'm surprised you've navigated this far during the past year without a Spiritual Father. Would you consider working with one via Skype or phone? I can think of a couple I could suggest.

I'm not concerned myself about an Orthodox priest being a "wolf in sheep's clothing", that can be anyone, anytime, but the degree to which you have been noticeably angry for some time does make me think you have been in real need of a spiritual father where you are.

You are very much in my unworthy prayers, brother.

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Thank you likethethief. I will have to see what happens when I get to talk with the priest.

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