"Navel-gazing": what Barlaam called Orthodox hesychasm

???

The second post in this thread referred to New Agers as navel-gazers.

but who is Barlaam?

Barlaam was a contemporary of St. Gregory of Palamas who opposed the practices of hesychasm, arguing that God, in no way whatsoever, could be directly perceived by man.

I just realized that in Western countries Eastern Christianity may actually be perceived as an alternative religion. It still falls within the boundaries of normal Christianity, but it's fresh to them and lets them "have their cake and eat it too." I say this because I'm one of those "latte-sipping, artsy, organic food-eating, interested-in-natural-medicine" types and I feel more comfortable with Eastern ways of looking at things. Like I said, we're like the Christian alternative religion.

But at the same time we get to avoid all that humanistic, Enneagram, new age hookie-pookie that goes on in Roman churches. Honestly, if it weren't for the more "feel-good" angle they take, the Resurrectifix types would be happy in the East. I have that exception because of our ascetic/monastic component.

Maybe those who would like Eastern paganism would prefer our Christianity, and those who would like Western European paganism would prefer Rome's? Some might think that's verging on blasphemy, but hey its not like books with titles like "Christ the Eternal Tao" don't exist.

Fixed.

In far too many Latin-Rite parishes, that's certainly the case, but it's hardly universal.

And there's certainly a mystical tradition in the West, but it's not as up-front as it seems to be in the East (and correct me if I'm wrong, which is certainly possible, considering that I'm an outside observer of Eastern Christianity).

I'm a member of a rather traditional Latin-Rite parish, and I know a small handful of people who are interested in genuine mysticism (as opposed to miracle- and apparition-seekers, of which there are far too many). And I'm developing an interest in similar spirituality, though I've never thought, until now, to call it "mysticism." I'm just interested in getting as close to Our Lord and experiencing Him as deeply as possible, regardless of what label is applied to it.

Regardless, I'd like to hear more emphasis on this type of spirituality within my tradition, because I know a lot of people simply don't know this sort of union with the Divine is even possible.

Yes, I know that's not the case with all Roman parishes. However, your last line there is probably the precise reason why people seek out syncretic stuff and apparitions and such. There's a vacuum there, and nature doesn't like that. People seem to try to replace mystical union and deifying inner transformation with emotionalism, sentimentality, humanism, apparition seeking and the New Age.

Not to say that there isn't emotion, sentiment, justice, apparitions and the supernatural in the more genuine thing. It's just comes from a different place, is the result rather than the focus. More... balanced?

I agree wholeheartedly. Our parish is strong in many areas, but it's not at all strong in fostering this sort of spirituality, and I believe that leads to the apparition-chasing phenomenon in which too many of my fellow parishioners are involved (and even our otherwise-solid associate pastor promotes one of these apparitions far too frequently in his homilies and personal correspondence).

Yes, I think you've pretty much nailed it. Emotional consolation shouldn't lead - it should follow, right?

I think most on here do not know this about me,though it is not a secret, but I have been through many of this. I have been Pagan, Wiccan, done the Hinduism thing, almost did Shamanism (though not for a lack of trying :-P lol) and Buddhism. What I have sought through all this and even now is an experience with the Divine, with God. Even though I did all this, I never stopped believing in Christ, but wanted to experience something other than the mundane. Still today I wish to have this experiential knowledge of God, of Christ. But how does one have that? Even today I still do not know Christ. I believe in Him and His Church. I understand as best I can with my feeble human mind our faith on an intellectual level, but I do not know my Lord. This is what had drawn me to seek "spiritual experiences" outside the Church. How does one "know" God, "know" Christ and the Holy Spirit outside of intellectual knowledge and on an intimate level? How does saying "Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me the sinner" help me know my Lord intimately? I think this is what many new agers, pagans and wiccans are after. I think this is what many Christians are after and think they have it when they find a highly emotionally driven community. How can I wet my dry lips with Living Water and make fertile my barren soul?

Hi All,

After some time from registering this is my first post.

Some time ago I left Christianity (Anglican) because I wanted to get away from what I saw as a very stinted view of God. For over three months I was a Buddhist monk living in India. It was during this time I learnt the beauty of chant and ritual. I also learnt much about Christianity.

On my return to Christianity I began a course of private study which led to formal study through a Theological College. It was during this time that I was introduced to Orthodoxy and invited to attend the service of Divine Liturgy in English.

I was literally blow away by experience - it was if as I had finally arrived home.

My point is that in seeking 'other' spiritualities I came to a better understanding of the mystical nature of the Christian experience of God. Many of the posts here resonate with my own experience of the Divine.

There is some of the Divine within us all and I think that search for that divine spark is what we all seek - in some form or other.

john,

Welcome to the forum - or to posting on it. We have quite a few long-time members from Down Under and it's always a pleasure to have another one join us.

Many years,

Neil

Thank you Neil.

John, thanks for that testimony. I know of a few lapsed Christians who discovered Eastern Christianity at least partly by means of Buddhism. I trust you will find your mystical desires fulfilled in the Church.