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#381591 - 06/15/12 03:48 AM
Linquistic question
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Member
Registered: 07/23/05
Posts: 2677
Loc: The Third Rome
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As is my norm, I can never pass up a good yard sale. Sometimes I get lucky. This past weekend, I picked up a Slavonic Psalter printed in Kiev in 1832 for $3. I got lucky!  In the front of the book, someone had written out in a beautiful hand, in Slavonic script, the following: О, Господ и Учител на живота ми! От мен духа на мързел, малодушие, похотта на властта, и празни приказки. Но дават по скоро дух на целомъдрие, смирение, търпение и любов на слугата ти. Да, Господи и крал! Дай ми да видя моите собствени грешки и да не се съди брат ми, защото ти си благословен во веки веков. амин Now I recognize it as the Prayer of St Issac the Syrian, my question is, what language is it in? Syntax and grammar are reminiscent of Church Slavonic, but word order and vocabulary are off. No dialect of Russian, Carpatho-Russian or Serbian that I have run across before. It seems like a mix of Eastern and Southern Old Slavic tongues. Macedonian? Balakaty Ukrainian? Anyone want to take a shot? I'm ready to go to the Slavic Dept at U of Pitt and see if they can decipher it! Alexandr
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#381603 - 06/15/12 07:22 AM
Re: Linquistic question
[Re: Slavipodvizhnik]
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Global Moderator
Member
Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 9563
Loc: Massachusetts
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Alexandr, my brother, How about Bulgarian? Perfect translation from Google translate - the only language in which it translates cleanly - except for 'fudge'  (and I tried every one of the Slav or near Slav languages available) - alternative translation of 'fudge' = 'empty words'. O Lord and Master of my life! (Take) from me the spirit of laziness, cowardice, lust of power, and fudge. But give rather the spirit of chastity, humility, patience and love to Thy servant. Yes, Lord and King! Let me see my own mistakes and not to judge my brother, because you are blessed forever. amen But, it's The Great Prayer of St Ephraim the Syrian, not St Isaac the Syrian. Many years, Neil
_________________________
"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."
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#381604 - 06/15/12 07:34 AM
Re: Linquistic question
[Re: Slavipodvizhnik]
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Member
Registered: 07/23/05
Posts: 2677
Loc: The Third Rome
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Neil, you are a genius! I don't know why I didn't think of that! Genuine Balakaty Bulgarian! Balakaty, in Ukranian means "to babble" and was a derisive term used to describe Cossack speech, which was a mixture of Russian, Ukrainian and Tatar words. The word order is not modern Bulgarian, but could be some local dialect. What has me stumped, is that we've got tons of Ukies, Carps, Rusnaks, Serbs, Croats, Poles and other Slavs, but Bulgars in SW Pa? I can count 3 and Bishop Kirill of the OCA passed away, so make that 2! Where did this Psalter come from? And who would write out Bulgarian in Old Slavonic script? Hmmmmm....
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#381610 - 06/15/12 09:25 AM
Re: Linquistic question
[Re: Slavipodvizhnik]
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Global Moderator
Member
Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 9563
Loc: Massachusetts
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What has me stumped, is that we've got tons of Ukies, Carps, Rusnaks, Serbs, Croats, Poles and other Slavs, but Bulgars in SW Pa? Alexandr, Bulgarian Macedonian National Educational and Cultural Center in Homestead - enough southwest for you? Many years, Neil
_________________________
"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."
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#381613 - 06/15/12 11:43 AM
Re: Linquistic question
[Re: Slavipodvizhnik]
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Member
Registered: 11/11/01
Posts: 256
Loc: Beaver PA
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But no Bulgarian Orthodox Church in SW PA. I believe the Bulraian-Macedonian church in Steelton PA, near Harrisburg, which just closed, was the only Bulgarian church in the state.
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#381616 - 06/15/12 02:12 PM
Re: Linquistic question
[Re: Slavipodvizhnik]
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Member
Registered: 05/01/09
Posts: 1250
Loc: Upstate New York
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Many of us know a remarkable Bulgarian from Pittsburgh who spent his life travelling the northeast painting the interiors of both Orthodox and Eastern Catholic Churches! While his health isn't what it used to be, master church painter George Nedelkov still swings a 'mean brush!'He painted many a large church all by himself, including scaffolding and cleaning! Many Years! Mnohaja lit!
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#381625 - 06/15/12 06:16 PM
Re: Linquistic question
[Re: Slavipodvizhnik]
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Member
Registered: 11/03/03
Posts: 324
Loc: Farmington Hills,MI
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Just speaking about Bulgarians and Macedonians on another thread!I recall the late,Nick Marusov,my parishoner in Houston,TX,a native son of the OCA parish in Homstead,PA.He claimed that there was a local minority of Bulgarians in that parish,which is located in the Pittsburgh area.
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#381655 - 06/16/12 07:41 AM
Re: Linquistic question
[Re: Jaya]
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Global Moderator
Member
Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 9563
Loc: Massachusetts
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I know we have at least one forum member from Bulgaria, maybe he can weigh in on it. I actually just e-mailed ag_vin on another matter and meant to call this thread to his attention. I'll send him a follow-up. Many years, Neil
_________________________
"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."
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#381660 - 06/16/12 08:22 AM
Re: Linquistic question
[Re: Slavipodvizhnik]
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Global Moderator
Member
Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 9563
Loc: Massachusetts
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The word order is not modern Bulgarian, but could be some local dialect. Alexandr, my brother, While I can't claim any knowledge of Bulgarian, Modern or otherwise, (other than what little I picked up in working on the directory entries for Bulgaria) - nor any of Old Slavonic, it seems unlikely to me that Google Translate would have translated anything other than Modern Bulgarian that well. (What I posted was, with the exception of the parenthetical) precisely what was rendered. Having relied on machine translations in multiple languages for a long time, I'm not sure that I can ever remember any of them producing such a clean translation. Virtually every one that I've ever seen has required a great deal of tweaking to produce anything vaguely resembling a truly coherent result. To me, that argues strongly for Modern Bulgarian - as, of course, do Jaya's perceptions. Many years, Neil
_________________________
"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."
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#381665 - 06/16/12 01:56 PM
Re: Linquistic question
[Re: Slavipodvizhnik]
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Member
Registered: 04/24/09
Posts: 120
Loc: BG
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Yes, it's Bulgarian  It would be interesting to find out when it was written - in 1832 or later. It looks like a free translation of the prayer (probably from Church Slavonic) to Bulgarian. I guess the current Bulgarian translation of the prayer wasn't available yet, so it's possible that it was written in the 19th century. As a whole the text sounds even more modern than the current Bulgarian version of prayer, which contains some archaic words. "О, Господ и Учител на живота ми!" - In that first sentence "Teacher" is used instead of "Master" (Vladyka). The second sentence is missing a verb. The more modern "празни приказки" is used instead of "празнословие" here, which is archaic, but let's say more liturgical. There is an error/typo in the third sentence, as "дават" is used instead of "дай". Curiously "крал" is used instead of "цар". Last sentence also contains an error/typo as it reads "да не се съди брат ми", instead for example "да не съдя/осъждам брат си". Here is the translation used by the Bulgarian Orthodox Church: Господи и Владико на моя живот, не ми давай дух на безделие, униние, властолюбие и празнословие. Но дух на целомъдрие, смиреномъдрие, търпение и любов дарувай на мене, Твоя раб. Ей, Господи Царю! дарувай ми да виждам моите прегрешения и да не осъждам моя брат, защото си благословен во веки веков. Амин.
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