SocietyOfStsP&A, Robert Pauly, RichE, Gene, erniedee1, Kklcz, DMB, Cyrillic, AzzurriFan, cousin janie, lovesupreme, Dill-Bro Baggins, SERA, Raul Urbina Moreno, JXD
4745 Registered Users |
|
|
8 registered (Athanasius The L, Thomas the Seeker, eastwardlean?, Marian, Peter J, Sbdn. John, babochka, 1 invisible),
211
Guests and
3
Spiders online. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
4745 Members
26 Forums
31700 Topics
387857 Posts
Max Online: 2716 @ 06/07/12 04:10 PM
|
|
|
#382286 - 06/29/12 03:47 AM
Re: Styles of Iconostases
[Re: Herbigny]
|
Member
Registered: 05/20/12
Posts: 324
Loc: New York
|
Part of the problem is how Latinized the Eastern Catholic Church is. And where the Latinization (i.e. in what symbols they affirm their Catholicism).
E.g. the Ruthenian Byz. Cath. Church parishes seem to have no problems with the 3 barred cross and the iconostas. Many parishes of some other Byz. Cath. Church would feel that that is unacceptably "Orthodox" and a "betrayal" of their "Catholicism". These parishes would not have either iconostases or 3 barred crosses.
In such a situation, more "open style" iconostases might be less problematic at least pro tem. One pastor told me that the "half-way up" iconostas was all he could manage to push his congregation. "Any higher and they would have lynched me." Whereas other parishes and other Byz. have been able to recover more of their Orthodox liturgical spirituality (a la Canon Law). Oh, okay...so it's not necessarily, then, just a fluke of the area I live in or simply a matter of an architect's fancy. The Orthodox actually do like their iconastases to be the more traditional solid "walls" of icons whereas Eastern Catholic parishes may have a bit of an issue with them on account of lingering Latinization, thus the shorter or see-through style iconastases I have encountered in all except one Eastern Catholic church around here. I think that's interesting. Personally, I seem to prefer the "wall" style iconastases; I think they're fascinating. They mezmerize me. Something about that very certain and definite separation, decorated with holy icons, really does bring home to me the idea of the sanctuary of the church as the "Holy of Holies". There is something that makes me almost want to gasp whenever I see someone enter through one of the doors...like they shouldn't be doing that...which is a strange reaction for a sacristan to have. In the Roman Catholic church at which I am a sacristan, I'm in and out of the sanctuary constantly. Although I'm always very reverent about it, still, I've never been behind an iconastasis before and I wonder if I would ever want to go behind one. I've peeked through the royal doors, the way one peeks through the gates of the White House or Buckingham Palace, curious as to what's beyond them but knowing that one's place is not on the other side of them. I was given a tour of a Coptic Orthodox church not long ago and the sacristan was pleased to show me the Holy Table in the Holy of Holies. Before he opened the curtain and walked through the iconastasis, however, he removed his shoes. Until he did that I imagined I would follow him, but that reverent gesture of his emphasiszed the sacredness of the place and I was content to stay put and simply peek in from outside the icon screen. I'm okay with perhaps never fully seeing what lies behind the icon screen. I know that the altar table is there with its candles and tabernacle, and that there are two metal fans and a cross standing behind the altar...and the rest is sort of unclear to me, which is fine. Knowing only a part of what's back there but not everything lends a sense of mystery that I appreciate.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#382314 - 06/29/12 04:43 PM
Re: Styles of Iconostases
[Re: haydukovich]
|
Member
Registered: 05/20/12
Posts: 324
Loc: New York
|
haydukovich:
Thanks for correcting me about the terminology; one day I'll get it right.
I hear you about the sense of the sacred that we have, by and large, lost in the RC Church...but that's a larger issue that goes back a long time. Still, some older RC churches do retain their Communion rails (my own church does, for example), and one hears of a trend toward restoring them in churches from which they were moved, or even newly installed in contemporary churches that never had them to begin with.
I recall reading that the iconostasis began as a short barrier in ancient basilicas between the altar area and the nave. Back in those days the faithful sort of piled into the church following an outdoor procession, and the short barriers basically told the throng where to stop, the space beyond the barrier, where the altar was, being for the clergy only.
Following the defeat of iconoclasm in Constantinople, icons were mounted onto these short barriers by way of sticking it to the iconoclasts. Then more icons appeared...then more...until finally the short barriers developed into tall barriers with doors, the iconostasis of today.
In the West the barrier became an open screen of columns in some cases, or grilles (rood screens), but eventually disappeared for the most part in favor of the very short barrier that we call the Communion rail.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#382320 - 06/29/12 05:42 PM
Re: Styles of Iconostases
[Re: Roman Interloper]
|
Member
Registered: 11/09/01
Posts: 6935
Loc: Falls Church, VA
|
Don't worry about terminology. The Ruthenian Recension of the Euchologion (original Slavonic edition) is not at all consistent in what it calls the altar, the Holy Place, the Sanctuary, the High Place. Not to mention what to call the various doors, both in the iconostasis and the church building. The Ordo Celebrationis, the set of expanded rubrics for the celebration of Orthros, Vespers, and the Divine Liturgy, is just as inconsistent.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#382337 - 06/30/12 01:05 AM
Re: Styles of Iconostases
[Re: Roman Interloper]
|
Member
Registered: 11/09/01
Posts: 6935
Loc: Falls Church, VA
|
Have you seen Renaissance or Baroque rood screens? May not have been a curtain, but served equally well to obscure the altar.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#382388 - 07/01/12 03:10 AM
Re: Styles of Iconostases
[Re: StuartK]
|
Member
Registered: 05/20/12
Posts: 324
Loc: New York
|
Don't worry about terminology. The Ruthenian Recension of the Euchologion (original Slavonic edition) is not at all consistent in what it calls the altar, the Holy Place, the Sanctuary, the High Place. Not to mention what to call the various doors, both in the iconostasis and the church building. The Ordo Celebrationis, the set of expanded rubrics for the celebration of Orthros, Vespers, and the Divine Liturgy, is just as inconsistent. Well, the same inconsistency is true of the terminology of items found in a Roman Catholic church. For some, the "High Altar" (pre-Vatican II altar) is the "Original Altar" or, if there is no Vatican II-style table altar in front of it (which is extremely rare), it is the "Main Altar". The table altar is usually called the "Main Altar" and if it sits in front of a "High Altar", the "High Altar" is not the "Main Altar". The "Communion Rail" is also called the "Altar Rail". Some call an architectural canopy above the main altar a "baldachin", others call it a "ciborium". The "monstrance" is to some an "ostensorium" and the "censer" is also a "thurible". Some refer to the Holy Water "font", others to the Holy Water "stoop". "Sprinkler/Aspergilum", &c. &c. &c. As far as rubrics go, if you want to get completely confused, refer to more than one source. None of them ever completely agree.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|