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#382327 - 06/29/12 08:53 PM
Re: Eastern Orthodox leader urges ascesis to reverse climate change
[Re: Tomassus]
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Member
Registered: 11/09/01
Posts: 6979
Loc: Falls Church, VA
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Because human nature is immutable.
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#382333 - 06/29/12 09:46 PM
Re: Eastern Orthodox leader urges ascesis to reverse climate change
[Re: Carson Daniel]
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Member
Registered: 01/27/11
Posts: 496
Loc: Ontario, Canada
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Again, without a universal Catholic Monarchy supported by all Distributism cannot work. I don't understand why you think this. I don't, and I am a monarchist. The only alternative to righteousness is force. That's our choice. Either a Universal Catholic Monarchy accepted by all or force. See, that doesn't follow at all. If everybody was righteous, the form of government wouldn't matter. Monarchy is important because people aren't righteous. It helps them in their weakness, rather than being embraced in their strength. It's a separate matter from distributism.
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#382336 - 06/30/12 01:02 AM
Re: Eastern Orthodox leader urges ascesis to reverse climate change
[Re: Tomassus]
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Member
Registered: 11/09/01
Posts: 6979
Loc: Falls Church, VA
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Quis custodes ipsos custodiet?
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#382340 - 06/30/12 01:21 AM
Re: Eastern Orthodox leader urges ascesis to reverse climate change
[Re: JDC]
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Member
Registered: 11/07/01
Posts: 5783
Loc: Walled Lake, Mi
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See, that doesn't follow at all. If everybody was righteous, the form of government wouldn't matter. Monarchy is important because people aren't righteous. It helps them in their weakness, rather than being embraced in their strength. It's a separate matter from distributism.
Then why do we need the King of kings?
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#382342 - 06/30/12 01:27 AM
Re: Eastern Orthodox leader urges ascesis to reverse climate change
[Re: StuartK]
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Member
Registered: 11/07/01
Posts: 5783
Loc: Walled Lake, Mi
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Quis custodes ipsos custodiet? Good question.
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#382348 - 06/30/12 03:10 AM
Re: Eastern Orthodox leader urges ascesis to reverse climate change
[Re: Carson Daniel]
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Member
Registered: 01/27/11
Posts: 496
Loc: Ontario, Canada
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See, that doesn't follow at all. If everybody was righteous, the form of government wouldn't matter. Monarchy is important because people aren't righteous. It helps them in their weakness, rather than being embraced in their strength. It's a separate matter from distributism.
Then why do we need the King of kings? For the same reason we need earthly kings. I've said I'm a monarchist. One reason I am is that monarchy points to the true organization of creation. That said, it's simply not so that a distributist society can't exist apart from a Catholic monarchy.
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#382349 - 06/30/12 03:13 AM
Re: Eastern Orthodox leader urges ascesis to reverse climate change
[Re: StuartK]
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Member
Registered: 01/27/11
Posts: 496
Loc: Ontario, Canada
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Quis custodes ipsos custodiet? You mean the king? Who watches him? Stuart, I'm disappointed. I don't think that in this week of all weeks we must work very hard to show that a system of checks and balances (as elaborate as ever there was) is only as good as the men operating it.
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#382401 - 07/01/12 02:39 PM
Re: Eastern Orthodox leader urges ascesis to reverse climate change
[Re: Athanasius The L]
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Member
Registered: 11/29/11
Posts: 102
Loc: Virginia USA
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Still curious how to see "distibutism" enacted without compelling a society to adopt it. Exactly. While I'm very sympathetic to the concerns stated by Irish Ruthenian, and while I used to support what I call "democratic socialism," I have come to see systems such as socialism and distributism as being largely utopian. Capitalism is indeed riddled with flaws, and sometimes brings out the worst in people. However, I don't see how socialism or distributism can work without resorting to force. Distributism will work when Capitalism collapses under the weight of its own immorality. Then the hearts of people will be looking for something that will work, and with the proper amount of reminding them of the magnificent failures of Socialism and Capitalism, perhaps they will turn to the Church to implement a fair system in which the wealth is distributed more equally, while at the same time there do exist men who are richer than others because they have been more industrious. It is possible. We have been brainwashed to think that it is not.
Edited by Irish_Ruthenian (07/01/12 02:39 PM)
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#382409 - 07/01/12 09:02 PM
Re: Eastern Orthodox leader urges ascesis to reverse climate change
[Re: Tomassus]
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Member
Registered: 11/09/01
Posts: 6979
Loc: Falls Church, VA
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Keep telling yourself that. It may or may not happen this side of the Parousia. In the meanwhile, capitalism, for all of its imperfections, has still done more to alleviate global poverty and enhance personal freedom than all of the utopian schemes devised since the dawn of time, and for one specific reason: all of you think you are smart enough to tell the rest of us what to do.
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#382411 - 07/01/12 09:21 PM
Re: Eastern Orthodox leader urges ascesis to reverse climate change
[Re: Tomassus]
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Member
Registered: 08/05/10
Posts: 620
Loc: California
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I see, so essentially there's no need to try convincing anyone, because we need to wait for capitalism to collapse and disapper first anyways.
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#382415 - 07/01/12 11:33 PM
Re: Eastern Orthodox leader urges ascesis to reverse climate change
[Re: Tomassus]
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Member
Registered: 11/09/01
Posts: 6979
Loc: Falls Church, VA
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#382417 - 07/02/12 12:17 AM
Re: Eastern Orthodox leader urges ascesis to reverse climate change
[Re: StuartK]
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Member
Registered: 11/29/11
Posts: 102
Loc: Virginia USA
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Greece, Spain and Europe are just the beginnings. Capitalism encourages greed, which encourages looting the system, which will eventually collapse it.
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#382423 - 07/02/12 01:39 AM
Re: Eastern Orthodox leader urges ascesis to reverse climate change
[Re: Tomassus]
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Member
Registered: 11/09/01
Posts: 6979
Loc: Falls Church, VA
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If you think Greece, Spain and Europe (Greece and Spain are NOT in Europe? Who knew?) are good examples of capitalism, then, to quote Princess Bride, "You keep using that word, but I do not think you know what it means".
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